HOW do you Teach TILT!

[FiveFrameSwing]

In your video on rotation you say rotation is caused by the legs working against the ground in straight lines. I guess that is where I get confused.

I think what may help is an explanation of how the upper torso and front leg orientation, at frontside blocking, assists with the continuation & acceleration of rotation.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The benefit of the "Numbers Drill" is that it teaches the stretch part of the sequence, where the hands stay back during the stride. However in the process there is a good chance that any natural hip cock will get coached out. I have learned that the front foot will automatically open if the hips are cocked. IMO, rather than teach kids to open up the front foot into toe touch, it's much better to teach the kids to cock the hips/coil, and to keep the front side closed until the body says otherwise. IOW the uncoil and the front foot opening up into toe touch is a natural movement that just happens, provided the player coils.

Bold above ... do you mean 'toe-touch' or 'heel-plant'? That's a few times you mentioned teaching opening up the front foot into 'toe touch', and I'm wondering if you might be meaning 'heel plant' instead.

 

[rdbass]

Wellphyt,
Thanks for your post to my questions.I wasn't sure if posts about a product could be dicussed on this forum good or bad.I think/know I coached out things my DD was doing that I thought was wrong.I will continue to read and work with my DD.Like I posted before I had and still do have my DD bat against her shoulder.I will be addressing this issue during winter workouts.DD still playing fall ball.It has helped her keep her hands from droping.She has been hitting the ball well by doing this.I know this is just a quick fix.Just a dad trying to help a struggling DD.

 

[Dr. Chris Yeager]

Doc ... I don't think anyone could argue about rear leg abduction ... IMO it's clear as day.

A quick question ..... Do you still place an emphasis on the cue of having the rear knee drive/push the front heel into the ground?

The rear knee action, to me anyway, is the result of the rear leg uncoiling. Do you see it different?

 

[Wellphyt]

Bold above ... do you mean 'toe-touch' or 'heel-plant'? That's a few times you mentioned teaching opening up the front foot into 'toe touch', and I'm wondering if you might be meaning 'heel plant' instead.

Epsteins's "Numbers Drill" teaches the student to stride to toe-touch with the front foot open approximately 45 degrees. Position #1 has the student going to toe-touch. Position #2 has the student dropping the front heel while simultaneously lifting the back heel - what I call the "Elvis". Position #3 is the remainder of the swing where the front leg stiffens while the hips turn forward.

The most performed drill in the process is what's called the "1-3" where the student goes to the #1 position and then simply drops the heel and swings.

The reality is that it's really hard to get the kids off their backside doing static drills like this which take out the hip cock. My daughter hit for years with a reverse weight shift. Sometimes I still think I see a reverse weight shift in some swings when she comes up against a really hard throwing pitcher and feels a little out of her comfort zone.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Doc … thank you! Much appreciated!

Personally ... I consider this a very nice improvement … and in an important/critical area of the swing ... the base/foundation. The lower body is significantly improved ... and we're seeing a rotation that is more a 'result' than a forced type spin action. Well done!

A point of clarification … the force directed in a straight line towards the target creates rotation about the front leg … and I’m perfectly fine with that … but the request is for you to speak further on what enhances that rotation versus what retards that rotation. That is, from the perspective of the rotation being a 'result', I'd appreciate you speaking more on what particular aspects 'enhance' and 'retard' the linear-to-rotational conversion efficiency.

For example … you spoke of “pelvic tilt” … does the degree of pelvic tilt effect the conversion of linear-to-rotational energy from the linear push into the frontside?

Does the orientation between the upper torso and front leg impact the conversion efficiency (linear to rotational energy)?

Does the degree of anterior tilt of the torso influence the conversion efficiency (linear-to-rotational)?

Does the degree of lateral tilt influence the conversion efficiency (linear-to-rotational)?

Does the direction of the front femur at heel plant (at the start of the push/block) influence the conversion efficiency (linear to rotational energy)?

Notice that this 11yr old does not have his front foot arrive fully down to the ground with the front foot square to the pitcher, but open somewhere near 45-degrees. Does this angle, or opening of the front foot, influence the linear-to-rotational conversion efficiency?

Are there particular angles that either enhance or retard the linear-to-rotational conversion efficiency?

You gave ‘feel cues’ that I believe enhance the conversion efficiency … such as hitting behind the front leg … I like that cue and have had success with it. Do you use other such 'feel cues' that enhance the linear-to-rotational conversion efficiency?

Basically … I believe what some folks are hesitant on, in terms of using their rear leg as you describe, is that they fear that the linear push into the front side will create a jamming type issue. The request is for you to speak more on what promotes & what retards the conversion from linear-to-rotational energy.

 

[Wellphyt]

Here are some hitters at heel plant. Notice the position of the back foot.


Here is Jack Mankin describing his view of how the hips work. Sounds to me like he agrees with Ted.



And don't forget this video.
[video]http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18208525[/video]

 

[Wellphyt]

I would encourage everyone to look at the before video of this student. Watch what he does with his front foot as soon as he picks it up. He immediately opens it up right? Compare that action to these quotes from Ted:

"The hips and hands cock as you move your lead foot to stride."
"You are cocking your hips as you stride, and it's so important to get that right."

As soon as this student opens his front foot he loses any coil he might have had, which wasn't much to begin with. That's why he spins. According to Ted, the hip cock is how you shift your weight back. This backward weight shift of the hips, must occur as the front foot is picked up to stride. Further more, the hips must stay turned back during the stride as the hitter comes forward to maintain balance.

If you don't cock your hips as you pick up your front foot to stride and keep the hips turned back during the stride, you have nothing to weight shift forward. The result is spin.

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt,
Thanks for your post to my questions.I wasn't sure if posts about a product could be dicussed on this forum good or bad.I think/know I coached out things my DD was doing that I thought was wrong.I will continue to read and work with my DD.Like I posted before I had and still do have my DD bat against her shoulder.I will be addressing this issue during winter workouts.DD still playing fall ball.It has helped her keep her hands from droping.She has been hitting the ball well by doing this.I know this is just a quick fix.Just a dad trying to help a struggling DD.

When my daughter took the bat off the deltoid, the way she slotted her back elbow was to lower her hands and put the bat against her deltoid and then swing. I know one other player that used Epstein's dvds that did the same thing. You need to watch for this action as it will cause problems.

IOM the key is the sidearm throw or skip-a-rock type action. If your daughter is like most girls, she will probably not do this action naturally. Males tend to do it naturally, females not so much. You will have to teach her. We did a lot of back arm swings with a tee ball bat and practiced throwing a ball sidearm. Chris Yeager has a thread up illustrating how the back upper arm works to cause the elbow to work underneath the hand. IMO the external rotation of the upper arm is critical in getting the correct action and establishing connection.

If you can throw sidearm correctly, then you should be able to figure out how to teach your daughter. Again, the key action you are looking for is how your elbow works underneath your hand when you throw sidearm. Last year I asked all eleven girls on our 14u travel team to make a sidearm throw, just to see if they could do it. None of them could. Their elbow does not work underneath their hand like boys do. It's not that they can't. They just don't know how.

 

[rdbass]

I will show and try and get DD to learn how to skip a rock and throw side arm.I'm an old Philly kid so I grew up throwing everything.I am always on my DD on the correct way to throw and throw hard.Question after reading all of this and with my limited education still like what Epstien teaches.I like the hindged back knee and rototional style weight alittle back.DD just turned 13 would I be wrong and continue down this path?We have progressed from bug squishing and level swinging and a few other bad things to tilting ,coil ,uncoil and alot of good things.My DD is starting to hit the ball harder and is able to explain to me how she feels and what she likes or don't like about her swing.We can discuss what to work on and why certain technics don't work for her.I understand and see what is being discuss by the good Dr. Chris and others and was thinking along the lines of to get my DD to learn the Epstein system first then we can start to progress more into this Hitting stlye.I think I need more time myself to figure out how to teach my DD.I don't want to offend anyone but I think for my DD size and weight (5'1'' and 100 lbs) she is more productive with the rotational stlye hitting.Sounds like I am settle with just having her hit the ball,but I don't want to I want her to get as good as possible.Hope this makes sense to the do it your self dads that are learning along the way.