HOW do you Teach TILT!

[FiveFrameSwing]

What is this supposed to prove? If it's supposed to be leading with the back elbow then I agree with Chris. Also, why do you routinely advocate so fervently against knocking knuckles grip because it promotes the back elbow to be too far forward and suddenly here if someone teaches against a forward back elbow it shows a lack of understanding?

Take a breath and relax Mr-T.

I wasn't trying to prove anything ..... I put up a GIF with some labels ... without a description.

The label of the 'hands' appears to be correct ... it is pointing at the 'hands' ... do you disagree?

The label of the 'rear elbow' appears to be correct ... it is pointing at the 'rear elbow' ... do you disagree?

One might take note of the relative position of the 'hands' and 'rear elbow' for this particular hitter, and at this particular point in the swing, ... then again, one might not take note of that.

As for knocking knuckle alignment ... I don't see many promoting that much anymore ... at least not beyond LL.

 

[Mr T]

Relax I'm not worked up at all. I am really just trying to figure out what is being argued here. Is there anything useful being argued?

When you skip a rock of course your elbow is in front of your hands. To say otherwise would be ridiculous, but as far as I can tell you and MTS seem to be implying that Chris is advocating some sort of hands always in front of elbow. You created a straw man.

If the mere fact that the elbow is very briefly in front the hands when first slotted equates to "leading with the elbow" then by all means I am on board with leading with the elbow.

I am assuming we are all on the same page here and promote this, and discourage the elbow leading the hands around the corner. Yet there is this strange argument occurring. Or perhaps I do not understand and in fact you and or MTS are in favor of creating bat whip by leading the elbow around the corner to some extent.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

What is this supposed to prove? If it's supposed to be leading with the back elbow then I agree with Chris.

I'm not going to get into what it's supposed to prove, but I will say that what it proves is that, when you're talking about the swing, you have to used firm anatomical benchmarks (e.g. the position of the back elbow relative to the back hip) or else you're going to be at the mercy of people who can find a camera angle to prove any supposed point.

BTW, this is also why I never talk about where a hitter should hit a ball relative to the plate -- for example when talking about where to place the tee -- because where the plate is located in the hitter's stance is going to vary from hitter to hitter based on where they stand relative to the plate. When talking about where to place the tee, you have to talk in terms of the hitter's body (e.g. at the heel of the front foot or at the belt buckle).

 

[Mr T]

I'm not going to get into what it's supposed to prove, but I will say that what it proves is that, when you're talking about the swing, you have to used firm anatomical benchmarks (e.g. the position of the back elbow relative to the back hip) or else you're going to be at the mercy of people who can find a camera angle to prove any supposed point.

BTW, this is also why I never talk about where a hitter should hit a ball relative to the plate -- for example when talking about where to place the tee -- because where the plate is located in the hitter's stance is going to vary from hitter to hitter based on where they stand relative to the plate. When talking about where to place the tee, you have to talk in terms of the hitter's body (e.g. at the heel of the front foot or at the belt buckle).

Yep, the hip would be the point of interest here. I am not sure if FFS and/MTS were implying that you were promoting some sort of little league push swing but the level of attack laid against you implied you were way off base in some regard. I got charged with overreacting for good measure, sending my irony meter to 10.

 

[RayR]

If the mere fact that the elbow is very briefly in front the hands when first slotted equates to "leading with the elbow" then by all means I am on board with leading with the elbow.

That's all I was trying to say...

You cannot create bat whip with the hands fused to the shoulder....the elbow gets fused as well.....although oleary believes you can....that is the bare bones of it....he has even posted his kid trying to eliminate bat drag by keeping the barrel pinned to the rear shoulder...he believes that the barrel flies off the merry go around at precisely the right moment regardless of pitch loaction/movement/speed.....all because you rotate really fast....

is this hitter leading with the rear elbow?

How about this one?

Are their hands able to make an adjustment? Yep.... Are they whipping the barrel? Yep.... Are they hitting ball square? Yep.... Does the back knee drive forward? Yep.... Does the front leg brace up? Yep.... Do you see the front foot spin out as a result of the forces applied against the front leg? Can you see the front thigh bulge/flex?

I model my teaching after what I see the better hitters do and NOT rely on psuedo science.....

How about hitting a pitch off the plate? Does the elbow lead? Can you still make the adjustment? Would you be able to if you roped the hands to the rear shoulder?

Relax I'm not worked up at all. I am really just trying to figure out what is being argued here. Is there anything useful being argued?

When you skip a rock of course your elbow is in front of your hands. To say otherwise would be ridiculous, but as far as I can tell you and MTS seem to be implying that Chris is advocating some sort of hands always in front of elbow. You created a straw man.

If the mere fact that the elbow is very briefly in front the hands when first slotted equates to "leading with the elbow" then by all means I am on board with leading with the elbow.

I am assuming we are all on the same page here and promote this, and discourage the elbow leading the hands around the corner. Yet there is this strange argument occurring. Or perhaps I do not understand and in fact you and or MTS are in favor of creating bat whip by leading the elbow around the corner to some extent.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

is this hitter leading with the rear elbow?

No, not really.

This hitter's back elbow never gets ahead of her back elbow up to the POC, which is all that matters.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

How about this one?

This hitter's back elbow never gets ahead of her back elbow up to the POC, which is all that matters.

 

[softballphreak]

Now I remember; this is an old feud. I thought that was in the past. I believe everyone is on the same page now, though.

 

[RayR]

Her back elbow never gets ahead of her back elbow....brilliant....put the bottle down....

No, not really.

This hitter's back elbow never gets ahead of her back elbow up to the POC, which is all that matters.

 

[softballphreak]

Her back elbow never gets ahead of her back elbow....brilliant....put the bottle down....

I have to give Chris credit for maintaining his civility.