Hip and Tilt

[Eric F]

You would think it would. My DD uses the neck slot and at times she still gets disconnected from the rear shoulder, and the forearm and bicep separates. This causes a myriad of issues. When she focuses on keeping the bicep and forearm "pinched or tight" then is solves a lot of "connection" issues. I think its also related to her age, and body awareness. You find at least with my DD, that when the separation occures it also coincides with not maintaining posture (Chest and head over the plate), the head comes up and chest often comes up.

Check to make sure she's pulling back into her scap. IMO, tension is the scap will tend to result in the hands staying close to the shoulder during the early part of the swing. Whereas, focus on bicep pinch does not necessarily result in scap tension. Scap tension is an important part of connection.

You are absolutely correct that body awareness is a big part of this.

 

[Mike-Coach-Q]

The mistakes (and many of them) I've made was being too focused on 1 aspect of the swing being present but failed to realize other parts had to be present or go before in order to achieve in this case lateral tilt. The lateral tilt that Richard is talking about is started behind the rear shoulder , scap, and butt cheek not over the plate. I'm not sure what result or outcome you are looking for in your hitter by working on lateral tilt, a lot of things going on under the hood before L.T. is happening.

With the athletes, I'm blessed to work with, we work on the whole swing and adjust with the player as she advances with her swing and body awareness in balance, tempo and timing. It's not my way of learning and is sometimes frustrating for the dads that pay me because it can look like no much is getting done. My son even gets frustrated with me and the granddaughter because we are not progressing at his pace.
I Love this sport, love coaching, good luck

 

[Eric F]

The mistakes (and many of them) I've made was being too focused on 1 aspect of the swing being present but failed to realize other parts had to be present or go before in order to achieve in this case lateral tilt. The lateral tilt that Richard is talking about is started behind the rear shoulder , scap, and butt cheek not over the plate. I'm not sure what result or outcome you are looking for in your hitter by working on lateral tilt, a lot of things going on under the hood before L.T. is happening.

With the athletes, I'm blessed to work with, we work on the whole swing and adjust with the player as she advances with her swing and body awareness in balance, tempo and timing. It's not my way of learning and is sometimes frustrating for the dads that pay me because it can look like no much is getting done. My son even gets frustrated with me and the granddaughter because we are not progressing at his pace.
I Love this sport, love coaching, good luck

One of the things that makes you a good instructor is your ability to adapt to how your students learn. I've seen it up close in your work with Maddie, and in your work with some of your other students I'm familiar with.

 

[rdbass]

...each of the above HOF quality players, clearly drop the shoulder to get an 'under' appearance to their swing. The rear shoulder definitely works 'under'. In fact, that action is how they develop their 'Pinwheel Swing' (as compared to a merry go round). Pinwheel meaning the swing's arc is a vertical clock face with barrel speed down the back of the arc. A merry go round would mean the swing plane is a horizontal clock face.

You hear the coaches complaint often when an amateur hitter pops up. What gives? Why does the amateur pop up, yet the high level hitter drive the ball?

Here's the answer.

AMATEUR HIITTER: The amateur hitter flattens his bat then swings. He has a slop move that is not part of the launch, yet he can't launch until he does it. He has two moves to his launch. That flattening move happens first, then he launches. Therefore, if he flattens his barrel and drops his rear shoulder THEN launches, the acceleration of his bat will be upward and forward. And that technique will pop the ball up a lot.

HIGH LEVEL HITTER: The high level hitter does not flatten his bat before swinging. He swings from 'up'. The dropping of the shoulder that you see in the clips above IS AN ACCELERATION MOVE. He is turning the barrel rearward with his forearms and the lateral tilt of the torso enhances that action. It adds great power to the acceleration. The lateral tilt of the torso is maybe THE MOST EXPLOSIVE thing the body can do. That action is critical to the suddenness needed to hit at high levels. In fact, the acceleration of the bat is DOWNWARD, not up. The high level hitter swings down with a PINWHEEL action. Which means the barrel will turn up, but only as a result of the downward acceleration reaching the bottom of the arc. The hitter can hit the ball on the downstroke, or just at the bottom of the arc, or, preferably, just as the barrel turns upward.

When a coach tells a hitter to not drop his shoulder, he is guaranteeing an arm driven swing that lacks the suddenness and adjustibility that the hitter needs to hit high level pitching.

The shoulder drop is actually a result, not a cause. The shoulders are what you see. But the action is in the rear hip socket. The fused torso is pivoting, laterally tilting, over the back of the ball of the femur. This is a HUGE energy producer as it stretches the system to the max and results in great suddenness.

Notice that at a pitch at his knees....or....at a pitch above the waist.....he still laterally tilts his torso aggressively....all in....over the back of the ball of the femur....to launch his swing. He knows the advantages of that move.

Why can't you see the lateral tilt of the torso over the back of the ball of the femur? Because that stretches against the rear leg so much that the leg INSTANTLY turns forward, grabbing the torso, yanking the balance point forward keeping the hitter from falling over backward.

It is absolute truth....that you will deny until you do it. Then, you will feel it. Then you will see it. Will you swing a bat to duplicate?

The lateral tilt instruction leads to aha moments instantly.

Dropping the shoulder, in high level hitters, has literally NOTHING to do with whether you pop up or not.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Does anybody have a good gif of the forearm / bicep pinch? WOuld this teaching be the same as hands get pulled in and then thrown off? Do all good hitters do this to some degree?

 

[Work=wins]

Hey WW, I think I get what you mean by tilt for spacing (ie, getting the body out of the way so the barrel can get where it needs to be), but I also think tilt IS about planing. It's what moves the bat path high to low and in and out, IMO. The hands, which are also extremely significant in my opinion (and you agree, ie, 'learn how to use your hands') get the barrel turned (in my opinion) or released (in your language) behind and to the ball with fine adjustments to optimize the contact point. And finally the arms are generally bypassed unless there's a last minute contact-location change required, ie a curve or drop, in which case you have to let out your arms as a last-resort adjustment to an already launched swing.

Do you think this is fair? And in particular, do you agree or disagree about tilt being the axis and plane-setter of in/out up/down rotation to contact point?

I actually think the pelvis sets the axis of rotation around the spine. Which acts upon the shoulders and their ‘tilt’. Anterior tilt into posterior tilt of the pelvis thereafter lateral tilt of the shoulders accompanied by lateral side bend of the spine. Jmo. Sorry for late response.

 

[Rolling Hard]

I actually think the pelvis sets the axis of rotation around the spine. Which acts upon the shoulders and their ‘tilt’. Anterior tilt into posterior tilt of the pelvis thereafter lateral tilt of the shoulders accompanied by lateral side bend of the spine. Jmo. Sorry for late response.

"I actually think the pelvis sets the axis of rotation around the spine. "
I would agree. The way TM does it looks like an injury waiting to happen.

On the Willie Mays gif.
Does he come up and out of his posture a little early? He definitely gets taller pre contact. Maybe pitch a little high in the zone?
When does a batter thrust his hips? Before contact? at contact? after contact? Or does he not thrust his hips?

Also W=W your comments on forearm / bicep pinch would be appreciated.

 

[Mike-Coach-Q]

As a life long learner and committed to being the best coach I can, please share the injury waiting to happen feelings you have. Thanks

 

[RichK]

I actually think the pelvis sets the axis of rotation around the spine. Which acts upon the shoulders and their ‘tilt’. Anterior tilt into posterior tilt of the pelvis thereafter lateral tilt of the shoulders accompanied by lateral side bend of the spine. Jmo. Sorry for late response.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Work=wins]

"I actually think the pelvis sets the axis of rotation around the spine. "
I would agree. The way TM does it looks like an injury waiting to happen.

On the Willie Mays gif.
Does he come up and out of his posture a little early? He definitely gets taller pre contact. Maybe pitch a little high in the zone?
When does a batter thrust his hips? Before contact? at contact? after contact? Or does he not thrust his hips?

Also W=W your comments on forearm / bicep pinch would be appreciated.

I don’t think Willie comes out of posture since the swing began before his ‘adjustment’. It seems his posterior tilt of the pelvis happened before contact as well.

The hip ‘thrust’ or hip extension or posterior pelvic tilt happens before contact. It’s a piece of the chain that transfers energy upwards..

It’s a decel component of the swing that makes for a better transmission of force through the chain of the swing.

I also don’t think it needs to be taught if one decels in sequence. imo of course.