From 40' to 43'

[lawdawg]

This will be our first year at 43' in HS this year. What are your experiences with the move back. We have 2 girls that are legit 60 mph throwers are are used to 7-10 strikeouts a game. Both girls threw multiple perfect games last year. At 43' in TB this Summer they got hammered - way too much white part of the plate. One of them is working hard at developing changes of speed and movement. The other is locked into the "blow it by em mentality" - and thinks 65+ is the answer - I think she's in trouble.

I watched a 5 inning game a few weeks ago with 2 Allstate competing pitchers. Only 2 strikeouts between them.

For those of you in States that have been there a while - what have you seen? Has the pitching improved to level things out again or will that take a while?

 

[shockcoach]

My observation is that hitters gained a huge advantage and pitching has suffered. We had some teams bump up to play 16U ball and beat good teams. When they dropped back to 14U and 40', their pitchers looked better, but their hitters were now at a disadvantage by losing the extra 3 feet.

 

[lawdawg]

I was amazed at the difference 3' made. I wonder how much is "mental" - so much of hitting is mental. I would love to throw a game at 43' with the girls believing it was 40' or throw at 40" thinking it was 43" and see if things change. I do think it will level out at some point. You know many of us have been practicing out pitchers at 43' - 45' and not telling them. The experienced may know or at least suspect but they get the job done in practice.

 

[sluggers]

It is mental--but "mental" in that Daddies are living in a fantasy world.

DADDIES' FANTASY: My DD throws 63 MPH and has 4 breaking pitches. A flat curve ball is a fantastic pitch.

REALITY: Most HS pitchers throw between 55 and 60 mph. Most have a breaking pitch that moves at best two inches. A 55 mph flat curve ball thrown at 43 feet is perhaps the easiest pitch to hit.

If a pitcher can make the ball move, then going from 40' to 43' helps the pitcher. If the pitcher cannot make the ball move, then the difference hurts a pitcher.

It really is that simple. Most pitchers who can't make the ball move and aren't fast enough at 43 feet to blow it by hitters. So, they get pounded.

 

[Coach JV]

When moving from 40-43, the pitcher with good movement pitches will be fine.
The extra 3' gives the pitch more time to break. The 'power pitcher' will struggle at
16U whether at 40 or 43 due to the fact that the majority of these girls will pound a fastball
even when its thrown at 60 mph.
Yes, the hitter has a little more time, but still, the 'late breaking pitch' and solid defense wins games

 

[3'sDad]

DD & I had this exact conversation with PC at her lesson earlier this week. PC said the girls who are throwing at 45-47 mph will really notice the change; the girls who have a bit more velocity, have movement pitches or can change sppeds will have an advantage.

DD is 1 st year 14U and is moving back to 43'. She piches for her middle school team, who already moved back to 43' this past Spring.

DD has said she noticed a difference in school ballas more balls were put in play at 43' v 40'.

DD will focus on her CU the fall and Winter. The movement pitches progressed more than the CU this past year.

She will also wear a protective mask since the girls @ 14U hit the ball hard, whether pitched from 40' or 43'.

 

[EP Dad]

It is mental--but "mental" in that Daddies are living in a fantasy world.

DADDIES' FANTASY: My DD throws 63 MPH and has 4 breaking pitches. A flat curve ball is a fantastic pitch.

REALITY: Most HS pitchers throw between 55 and 60 mph. Most have a breaking pitch that moves at best two inches. A 55 mph flat curve ball thrown at 43 feet is perhaps the easiest pitch to hit.

If a pitcher can make the ball move, then going from 40' to 43' helps the pitcher. If the pitcher cannot make the ball move, then the difference hurts a pitcher.

It really is that simple. Most pitchers who can't make the ball move and aren't fast enough at 43 feet to blow it by hitters. So, they get pounded.

Even at 10U I've had to live in the REALITY world. The FANTASY world seems like a lot more fun place to be.

That being said speed seems to be overrated. The pitch has to move. How important is speed to movement? I've heard at least one pitching coach say that you have to have some speed to get a pitch to move?

 

[starsnuffer]

If the issues was they were pitching over the middle of the plate (too much white) then it seems pretty clear to me that accuracy and ability to hit their spots seems to be in question. They can't just expect to throw a changeup or curve and "see where it goes". They have to KNOW where it's going to go with a high degree of confidence. You may see fewer strikeouts, but there's no reason why the pitcher at this level should not be able to hit the right spots to force the batter to ground or fly out. An out is an out.

-W

 

[lawdawg]

There's no doubt location, movement and changing speeds are necessary at this level. However, the elder of these girls legit throws 60+ every pitch and is used to blowing it by at 40' - even in State Championship. She was Allstate last year as freshman. I don't coach this team - I coach the JR High and the 14u version of our school TB team, these girls move from me to our HS team. She has her on PC - and has refused to develop speed changes and movement (of any kind much less 2 plane movement). If she is "ON" she hits her spots very effectively. But in my very humble opinion - a REAL PITCHER - as opposed to a girl who can pitch - can adapt on the mound with other pitches, speed changes, etc. when she doesn't have her best stuff. I see her now as #3 pitcher because they pounded her in TB this Summer. Our other "flame thrower" is working very hard to develop off speed, movement stuff after getting hit hard this Summer. I think she will be fine.

I'm really interested to see if (all pitching) will catch up to the hitting at 43' and we will see dominant pitchers at the same rate we did at 40' in H.S. I had the benefit of watching Ashley Brignac transition from H.S. to college (U.L.L. Ragin Cajuns ) throwing 70+mph. She had to adapt. I suspect pitching and pitching coaches will find a way - because they will have to. My intuition is that in a few years the dominant pitchers will exist at same rate - and movement will be the key.

 

[Coach JV]

There is a difference between a pitcher and a girl who throws the ball.
A pitcher has movement and variation in speed, she can play at a high level.
The girl who's crazy daddy is her PC and says 'throw it harder' is fine thru 12U.
She gets lit up starting with 14U as pitches must move to be effective.
Most D1 pitchers will throw a fastball a dozen or less times per game.
Fastballs become hard line drives, drops are groundouts and rise pitches
are popouts