Player Age when 1 grade lower

[daywalkerdad]

Well, that is two thirds of all possible birthdays, so . . .

The birthday effect in college athletics

The birthday effect in college athletics

www.ncaa.org

Disproportionate.

 

[4Martini]

The birthday effect in college athletics

The birthday effect in college athletics

www.ncaa.org

Disproportionate.

This could show that kids who are impacted by the age rule and having to play with a grade up are more likely to quit before playing in college or are less likely to play at all, couldn’t it? I mean if kids decide to play soccer because they can play soccer or volleyball with their friends but not softball where their birthday forces them to play with the higher grade, they will not play in college.

The amount of why can’t I play softball with MY friends that parents of sept- Dec birthday parents have to listen to is a lot. We did discuss switching sports to not always be stuck with older grade kids as an option.

A lot of people like to attribute this to the youngest kids not being able to keep up- but maybe it’s just the youngest kids choosing other sports because this rule has an outsized social impact on them.

 

[daywalkerdad]

This could show that kids who are impacted by the age rule and having to play with a grade up are more likely to quit before playing in college or are less likely to play at all, couldn’t it? I mean if kids decide to play soccer because they can play soccer or volleyball with their friends but not softball where their birthday forces them to play with the higher grade, they will not play in college.

The amount of why can’t I play softball with MY friends that parents of sept- Dec birthday parents have to listen to is a lot. We did discuss switching sports to not always be stuck with older grade kids as an option.

A lot of people like to attribute this to the youngest kids not being able to keep up- but maybe it’s just the youngest kids choosing other sports because this rule has an outsized social impact on them.

Could be but I do not think that is the case. In my state the split is about 50-50 from the school cut off, and most travel teams that produce college players are not made up of classmates.

 

[stox]

The birthday effect in college athletics

The birthday effect in college athletics

www.ncaa.org

Disproportionate.

I don't understand why Sept-Dec birthdays seem to get lower representation for softball? Those are the oldest kids in the grade, who should theoretically have the advantage? The baseball graph seems more intuitive to me, which shows Sept-Dec birthdays have a much higher representation.

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[bsbs]

My daughter hasn't played with a classmate in either basketball or softball in a long time and she's 13. We have one 7th grader on our 2010 team. She'll either practice on her own or sub for 2 months this fall when the girls are playing hs. She'll be fine.

 

[clarity]

I don't understand why Sept-Dec birthdays seem to get lower representation for softball? Those are the oldest kids in the grade, who should theoretically have the advantage? The baseball graph seems more intuitive to me, which shows Sept-Dec birthdays have a much higher representation.

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See Malcolm Gladwell. I was giving daywalker a hard time because he said that most college player birthdays come from 8 months of the year. Basically, the theory (and reality) goes that when kids are in 8u or 10u, older kids (those born in the 1st few months of the year) get selected for the best teams because they are more physically mature than the younger kids. At 8u, a January birthday is more than 10% older than a December birthday and has had that much more type to physically develop. So, the early birth months get on better teams, play better competition, get better coaching, and stay on the top teams throughout their careers, resulting in what is called an "accumulation advantage" as the cycle repeats year over year.

 

[clarity]

I think it depends on your goal. If you are only caring about the pointy end of the spectrum and college recruiting maybe so. But for kids at the lower level getting to play with kids in their grade I think it’s a better experience and may help retain kids. Why should 3-4 months of kids not get to play with their school friends? My kid has always hated it. I think it made her a better player- but that’s not always the point. And the fact she was the tallest kid in her class all through elementary school made it not a big deal for her.

Our local league followed USA because especially in rec that’s what families wanted. Perfect game also followed. Not sure on others.

I don’t think it’s silly to try to align to have the best user experience - which seems pretty clear to let kids play with kids in their grade.

What is the benefit of using birth year?

You completely missed my point. Birthdates in any particular grade can and do span far greater than any particular 12 month period . It's a fallacy to think that the kids in a particular grade are all born within the same 12 month period. That might have worked 50 years ago, but it's not today's reality. A 7th grader can be 11, 12 or 13 years old, generally speaking. The benefit of using birth year is that you can be absolutely certain that all participants are all born within a 12 month period.

 

[stox]

See Malcolm Gladwell. I was giving daywalker a hard time because he said that most college player birthdays come from 8 months of the year. Basically, the theory (and reality) goes that when kids are in 8u or 10u, older kids (those born in the 1st few months of the year) get selected for the best teams because they are more physically mature than the younger kids. At 8u, a January birthday is more than 10% older than a December birthday and has had that much more type to physically develop. So, the early birth months get on better teams, play better competition, get better coaching, and stay on the top teams throughout their careers, resulting in what is called an "accumulation advantage" as the cycle repeats year over year.

Yeah I understand that, and it seems to manifest itself in the Hockey numbers, as that was the example used in Gladwell's book.

However, we see the Baseball numbers show a high proportion of Sept-Dec birthdays (older kids in the grade). Is there something different about baseball? Do they go to grade level sooner? Does the existence of middle school baseball teams give an advantage to the older kids in those grades?

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[stox]

You completely missed my point. Birthdates in any particular grade can and do span far greater than any particular 12 month period . It's a fallacy to think that the kids in a particular grade are all born within the same 12 month period. That might have worked 50 years ago, but it's not today's reality. A 7th grader can be 11, 12 or 13 years old, generally speaking. The benefit of using birth year is that you can be absolutely certain that all participants are all born within a 12 month period.

Isn't the problem solved by making the cutoff on September 1 instead of Jan 1? It would keep the vast majority of kids with their grade level and not give ones who "redshirt" the benefit of playing down.

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[clarity]

Isn't the problem solved by making the cutoff on September 1 instead of Jan 1? It would keep the vast majority of kids with their grade level and not give ones who "redshirt" the benefit of playing down.

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No