Dipping back knee

[stiksdad]

I would like to see her keep her front side elbow a little higher, at the top of the zone if you will, she is pretty good at the launch position, but never really seems to get up the ramp, I would put a little more emphasis on driving the the front elbow in the lane between the plate and box, without allowing the shoulders to rotate out to early, atleast until the barrel is released and at contact, just my thoughts.

 

[pstein]

Could you elobarate more on "top hand swivel"

Sure, but you're going to make me post more than twice in a week!

This is Bonds' top hand swivel. It isn't a late action. It's an early action turning the barrel around the hands. Pulling towards the dugout behind you with the top hand. That's only ONE way to feel it.

jbooth describes another that works with the barrel and the shoulders going at the same time.

 

[pstein]

Finally someone who has identified what I believe to be the biggest flaw in this swing.

When my DD begins to flatten her hands or flatten the barrel to the swing plane, her hips get way too far out in front of her upper torso/hands. Right now she flattens way too many frames prior to throwing the barrel. IMO what is happening is that all the while she is flattening, her hips are unwinding. Because she waits so long to release her shoulders (throw the barrel), her hips get too far out in front, which is why they stall. When her upper torso begins to turn, her hands are caught napping which leads to the tension in her front arm.

IMO this is a sync issue. She needs to figure out how to get her throw better in sync with her hips. Here is Jen Yee flattening during her stride.

Notice how Yee coordinates the throw of the barrel with the action of her getting her butt into it. I see my DD getting her butt into it but not her hands. My DD is at minimum 1 frame late with the throw of her hands, and I would argue she's more like 1 1/2 to 2 frames late.

My DD's swing would improve immensely if she ever figures out how to get her hands moving earlier. I believe the dead hands is likely the result of her doing thousands of swings starting with the bat on the deltoid beginning at age 9. The material I started her off with was very big in not using the hands.

She can do the correct action just fine in slow motion swings, so she knows what she is suppose to do. I went over the video with her and discussed in detail how she is basically flattening and them swinging. It's amazing she recovers as well as she does and hits as well as she does, doing what she's doing. Thank goodness for fastpitch bat technology.

The push through contact that some see is IMO due to her hips stalling because she is not in sync. I believe the swing is a hard push swing as described by Williams. There are many clips of MLB players pushing towards contact when they are early. IMO if my DD's hands where turning the corner 1 to 1 1/2 frames earlier, her hands would be in better sync with her hips and the push before contact would be none existent because her hands would be coming into contact closer to when her hips are coming into contact.

I don't think you can get this type of follow through without a good throw of the barrel:

View attachment 1813


I'm always open to ideas on how to correct swing issues. However the ideas have to be based in logic and I would prefer that they be aired out in the open if possible. One reason I posted my DD's swing is so that others can learn from it.

I'm hoping to demonstrate that there is no shame in a 15 yo girl not swinging like a MLB player or an accomplished D1 athlete. Much of it comes down to athleticism and work ethic. I've told my DD numerous times that you can't become a great hitter if you don't pick up a bat from November to February, and don't work all that hard during the other 8 months. I also believe that if you want your kid to be the best hitter they can be, it's important to compare them to slow motion video of the best. I think it's fine to disagree and debate what we see as the problem when a kid's swing doesn't match video of the best, but I don't think it is beneficial to the player's long term development to just ignore what the video shows. I don't think my DD particularly cares for that part of the process, but she does seem to get a little more motivated when she sees visual evidence that she doesn't match what the best do.

There's no shame if you take the steps that need to be taken in order to improve. Often having to step out of
your comfort zone.

Anyway, I would say the first thing that needs to be done is changing the way of coiling. I know you don't
believe that Teacherman is right with regard to the coil. Understandably, since (anatomically) his descriptions
are awful.

But I'll try to explain it as clearly as I can without using any confusing language. So the foot is presumably stuckin the back of the box (unless you're doing something strange). The rear knee goes inward (not by way of the knee), and you try to turn the pelvis rearward around it. I find that if I just try to turn my pelvis away from the pitcher (my left, since I bat left handed), I automatically will coil. And I automatically will move forward. This is felt in the hip socket and the foot. But the feel is not primarily in the foot.

Anyway, the hitter has now "coiled around". She's moving forward. As she moves forward, her hands do not move appreciably. This is key. Bringing the hands with you=no stretch and an out front push. Now you've reached heel plant. The weight is on the rear leg, if you haven't been fooled. If you have, you're holding the coil for all you're worth. But you MUST hold the coil either way.

So assuming you've coiled and stretched properly, it's now time to "GO!". Turn the barrel rearward using the top hand (keep maintaining the coil until you do so). Turn the barrel about the hands. The scap will pinch if she's doing it correctly. You've reached maximum power before lag. Guide the barrel to contact, she can adjust in/out with her arms. The swing is a "hard push-swing" in that you don't break the wrists before contact. This is what Williams meant, IMO. You're not launching forward, you're launching rearward.

I know a lot of this is esoteric. For the purposes of the site, I'm writing based strictly on feel.

P.S.: If a lot of this sounds "HI-ish", I don't intend on it sounding like it. This is based on my own personal experience. When you swing regularly, you figure out that certain things work really well, while others don't work well or at all. I try to compare most of what I do to video.

 

[knightsb]

March 28 Update

Thanks for all of the input and suggestions. We had our first tournament last weekend, she had two triples, two doubles, several singles, and one strike out. Her hitting is already much better than last fall.

Here is what we have been working on since our last post:
1. Posture / Balance. I had her position her feet in her normal stance, lock her knees, bend at the waist, then soften her knees. After the tournament, DD said she felt like she saw the ball better with more bend in her waist.

2. Weight Transfer. As suggested, I had DD get in her stance, then I placed my hand against her front shoulder and told her when she lifts her front foot to stride she should feel as if I am supporting her. We did drills that had her work on just falling forward when she lifted her stride foot without any swing.

3. Hand position. I noticed on a lot of the images and gifs of the model swings as the player strides and walks away from their hands, the hand position is back and down by their armpit. When she made this adjustment, she does not hit as many balls straight down.

4. During the Tee drill, I have had her look at a target across the street (pretending it is the pitcher) then swing at the ball on the tee.

5. We worked a lot from starting in a narrow stance. DD is also a pitcher so she has the concept of a premotion. I told her (I hope I am correct on this), that everything until toe touch is like her pitching premotion, and to pick a style she is comfortable with. She seems to like a wider stance.

6. We adjusted the "flat bat" and now have her bat barrel by her pony tail.

7. She is gripping the bat more in her fingers than palm.

This video from last night was not off the tee but from side toss.

 

[stiksdad]

She looks better pretty good in fact and the results of her tourney this past weekend are good. At this point I would continue what you are working on for another month or so and lets see where she is at. Good job and keep up the work, consistency is the key.

 

[Wellphyt]

Thanks for all of the input and suggestions. We had our first tournament last weekend, she had two triples, two doubles, several singles, and one strike out. Her hitting is already much better than last fall.

Here is what we have been working on since our last post:
1. Posture / Balance. I had her position her feet in her normal stance, lock her knees, bend at the waist, then soften her knees. After the tournament, DD said she felt like she saw the ball better with more bend in her waist.

2. Weight Transfer. As suggested, I had DD get in her stance, then I placed my hand against her front shoulder and told her when she lifts her front foot to stride she should feel as if I am supporting her. We did drills that had her work on just falling forward when she lifted her stride foot without any swing.

3. Hand position. I noticed on a lot of the images and gifs of the model swings as the player strides and walks away from their hands, the hand position is back and down by their armpit. When she made this adjustment, she does not hit as many balls straight down.

4. During the Tee drill, I have had her look at a target across the street (pretending it is the pitcher) then swing at the ball on the tee.

5. We worked a lot from starting in a narrow stance. DD is also a pitcher so she has the concept of a premotion. I told her (I hope I am correct on this), that everything until toe touch is like her pitching premotion, and to pick a style she is comfortable with. She seems to like a wider stance.

6. We adjusted the "flat bat" and now have her bat barrel by her pony tail.

7. She is gripping the bat more in her fingers than palm.

This video from last night was not off the tee but from side toss.

It looks like she's starting to understand the concept of a sequence where the hands stay back/go back as she strides.

Be careful she doesn't get her hips spread out too far as she strides. Generally speaking, the wider the stance the shorter the stride. It's very hard to get the hips through if the hips get too spread out. Try to get her to experiment with different stride lengths to see if she can feel a difference in her hip action.

It looks like you are making progress. Enjoy the process. It can be a lot of fun.

 

[Dragoncoach]

She looks better pretty good in fact and the results of her tourney this past weekend are good. At this point I would continue what you are working on for another month or so and lets see where she is at. Good job and keep up the work, consistency is the key.

2 other things I would consider is having her slightly pigeon toe her back foot and have her freeze after her swing. shes pulling the bat back too fast and missing out on some smoothness and feedback

 

[Wellphyt]

There's no shame if you take the steps that need to be taken in order to improve. Often having to step out of
your comfort zone.

Anyway, I would say the first thing that needs to be done is changing the way of coiling. I know you don't
believe that Teacherman is right with regard to the coil. Understandably, since (anatomically) his descriptions
are awful.

But I'll try to explain it as clearly as I can without using any confusing language. So the foot is presumably stuckin the back of the box (unless you're doing something strange). The rear knee goes inward (not by way of the knee), and you try to turn the pelvis rearward around it. I find that if I just try to turn my pelvis away from the pitcher (my left, since I bat left handed), I automatically will coil. And I automatically will move forward. This is felt in the hip socket and the foot. But the feel is not primarily in the foot.

Anyway, the hitter has now "coiled around". She's moving forward. As she moves forward, her hands do not move appreciably. This is key. Bringing the hands with you=no stretch and an out front push. Now you've reached heel plant. The weight is on the rear leg, if you haven't been fooled. If you have, you're holding the coil for all you're worth. But you MUST hold the coil either way.

So assuming you've coiled and stretched properly, it's now time to "GO!". Turn the barrel rearward using the top hand (keep maintaining the coil until you do so). Turn the barrel about the hands. The scap will pinch if she's doing it correctly. You've reached maximum power before lag. Guide the barrel to contact, she can adjust in/out with her arms. The swing is a "hard push-swing" in that you don't break the wrists before contact. This is what Williams meant, IMO. You're not launching forward, you're launching rearward.

I know a lot of this is esoteric. For the purposes of the site, I'm writing based strictly on feel.

P.S.: If a lot of this sounds "HI-ish", I don't intend on it sounding like it. This is based on my own personal experience. When you swing regularly, you figure out that certain things work really well, while others don't work well or at all. I try to compare most of what I do to video.

I asked her to demo her coil and then freeze at heel plant. I see a girl turning her pelvis around a firm rear leg as she comes forward. What do you see

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I see her using her rear leg better.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]