Current State of Softball Swing vs Baseball Swing

[Tewks]

Not trying to start a fight, but I have been encountering more and more linear vs rotational questions from softball parents... reaction time issues, pitch plane issues. What are other dominant thoughts/rationalization for the swings being different.


Let me be clear that I am very aware of difference in instruction for male vs female athletes. I was very fortunate to spend a day with a guy in Cincinnati who isn't very nice () and discussed this topic at length, so that's not what I am trying to get at.

 

[kls_hittingacademy]

What differences instuction are you talking about?

 

[starsnuffer]

I thought this was settled sometime in the 90's and now everyone realizes that the bottom half rotates and the top half is linear?

Or are we talking about "slow-pitch" dads that use their overlarge gut as the engine to drive their "rotational" momentum in order to hit meatballs?

-W

 

[Tewks]

What differences instuction are you talking about?

Weight shift differences with emphasis on hamstring and glute use (or lack of use), Q angle, carrying angle, concepts of how the barrel releases.

 

[Tewks]

I thought this was settled sometime in the 90's and now everyone realizes that the bottom half rotates and the top half is linear?

Or are we talking about "slow-pitch" dads that use their overlarge gut as the engine to drive their "rotational" momentum in order to hit meatballs?

-W

I don't know what was being settled in the 90s. I graduated high school in 2001, so I was more focused on play, not research. Care to continue? The most prominent stuff others teach are "get the foot down early" and "knob to the ball."


I know Candrea and Enquist have said the swings are "pretty much" the same. I know Howard/Hitter works with players of both sports. Many coaches in my area are still telling players and parents that they instruct a certain way because the softball swing is different. The top two reasons I hear are reaction time and the rise. I'm curious what else is out there for reasons.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Tewks, can you give an example of how hitting instructors in your area are instructing differently for softball vs baseball?

 

[FPMark]

Wow... this question is timely. I just got home from a tournament where a coach from a big organization was talking about a girl he picked up from a baseball team. He was talking to a parent sitting next to me, so I was listening too. He was explaining how hard it was to get her to change "her baseball swing" to a "softball swing" because everybody knows you can't hit a softball like a baseball. His reasoning was that the BB mound was higher than the plate, and the pitch release was overhand, so the ball was coming at a downward angle where a softball was released low and traveled 'up' towards the plate.

He also said that in softball you just don't have the time to take the 'big' swing like in baseball. He was looking right at me when he said this, so I just politely nodded and smiled. I guess I could have refered him to the posts by FFS I just saw under the thread "11 year old video" that show a girl hitting from a pitching machine (?) and Puljos hitting in the cage. Look how close the ball is to both before their hands even start moving, as well as the similarities of both swings. I don't know how to link to them.

 

[starsnuffer]

There are some minor swing path differences, but it's a matter of a few degrees, it's not a huge difference that requires teaching completely different mechanics. The idea of a long path through the zone remains, the swing path should be on the same plane as the ball crossing through the zone.

I think a lot of nonsense comes from the fact that baseball and softball swings will "look" different on video when the swing involves actual contact with the ball. This is largely because, in baseball, you have a heavy bat contacting a light ball, and the motion of the bat looks more continuous and smooth on video, whereas in softball you have a much lighter bat contacting a heavier ball, and often the bat will come to a dead stop for a moment when the ball is hit, and so the video appears "different".

Reaction time in softball is faster then in baseball, but not so much faster that the swing has to be abbreviated. I think the numbers are somewhere like .380 seconds for a 90mph fastball at 66.5 feet and .350 seconds for a 65mph fastball at 43 feet.

-W

 

[Cannonball]

Bobby, I understand Hitter's issues on this subject and he has had some great success. Hard to argue with success. As for what I coach, I haven't changed anything at all in my approach from baseball to softball. My child grew up attending my baseball camps and I coached her travel team. They (baseball and softball) all learned the same "stuff" and did comparable drill work designed for each player. Now that I'm coaching the softball team this year, they are doing the exact same stuff. I think that the video links provided on this site show that there are still some differences from the top college players in softball to MLB Players. I don't know if anyone would argue any different. Still, I think that the quest and drill work for either sport will result in a very good swing if the hitting coach uses a little common sense along with a good foundation on swing mechanics. JMHO!

 

[Tewks]

Tewks, can you give an example of how hitting instructors in your area are instructing differently for softball vs baseball?

The top concern is making contact. For most, the approach is a very linear approach... a push out front. Contact is light, but it is contact. There is a wave of coaches preaching rotational. And I end up seeing Epstein-like lean back stuff. I saw Epstein speak personally in 2003, not sure how much his info has changed since.

Being from the northeast, I know what its like in terms of reps and practice. Hand eye coordination (I sometimes use barrel-eye coordination) needs to be up to par regardless of mechanics. If kids can't make consistant contact with any mechanics, then there are some huge pieces missing that perfect mechanics wouldn't fix. I have a hunch that pitch recognition is greatly under-trained.



How many high school softball pitchers throw 65. I've asked my players and they've only seen one who throws 60. I made this spreadsheet to throw BP with appropriate reaction times, but it can be used here as well. I don't have 43 ft in there, but 40 and 45 are.

https://spreadsheets0.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Avb1lLrbTYtcdGJDVDhZcDREMXB6SzlLZ2xwYjkwYWc&output=html


Jee Yee did a good blog post on the plane of the pitch.

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