Current State of Softball Swing vs Baseball Swing

[Mr T]

I'm a newbie coming from baseball. Some of the reasons for altering the softball swing seem bunk to me. I am not yet convinced. I am not saying I am right, I just don't know enough to make a decision.

The things that jump out at me from this post and thinking about it:

Reaction time: I compute a 15 thousandths of a second less time to react to a 90mph fastball from 66.5 compared to a 60mph from 43. Not convinced.

Now, I am coaching my 8U girl. Obviously I know little of the movement of softball pitches. Perhaps different technique is required to handle it.

Now, an obvious thought is a top sprinter running average speed 20mph will get to first in softball in 2 seconds versus 3 for baseball. So, it seems inherently obvious to me that slapping the ball around would be much more productive in softball. The reaction time to look at is the time infielders have to make outs.

So why are we talking about a 1/100th difference in reaction time at the plate when the time to first might be on the order of 33% less?

 

[Justanotherdad]

As I understand it. Elite speed in softball is around 2.6 from home to first. And from what I have heard you could probably count on both hands how many girls actually have legit 2.6 speed in the entire country.

Most are on average 3.3 or higher, at least at the 14U level where my daughter plays.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Tewks et al - seems like most of the arguements here center about HOW to teach a HLBB type swing and differences in interpretation of what we think we see in photos and short video clips. If you were to tell anybody on this forum that their DD could have a HLBB (high-level baseball) swing just for the asking, I'd bet that no crazy dad/mom here would decline. IMO, with rock-solid mechanics, if you can hit well, you can hit anything well, whether it be baseballs, softballs, beans, rocks, etc.

I think one of the biggest perpetrators of the fallacy that the BB and SB swings are different is the viral footage of Jenny Finch utterly dominating MLB hitters, which leads the uniformed to an erroneous conclusion. Really, is there anyone out there who's spent some time comparing BB and SB swings that really thinks that the outcome wouldn't be dramatically different if the MLBers had a couple days/weeks to get used to the different release point and pitch recognition?

 

[Jeff_H]

There are some minor swing path differences, but it's a matter of a few degrees, it's not a huge difference that requires teaching completely different mechanics. The idea of a long path through the zone remains, the swing path should be on the same plane as the ball crossing through the zone.

I think a lot of nonsense comes from the fact that baseball and softball swings will "look" different on video when the swing involves actual contact with the ball. This is largely because, in baseball, you have a heavy bat contacting a light ball, and the motion of the bat looks more continuous and smooth on video, whereas in softball you have a much lighter bat contacting a heavier ball, and often the bat will come to a dead stop for a moment when the ball is hit, and so the video appears "different".

Reaction time in softball is faster then in baseball, but not so much faster that the swing has to be abbreviated. I think the numbers are somewhere like .380 seconds for a 90mph fastball at 66.5 feet and .350 seconds for a 65mph fastball at 43 feet.

-W

For those of us that have been around several years, this argument has been never ending. Way back when I started, I bought into the difference in the swings. What I have learned over the last 10 or so years is there isn't any difference in the two. While your numbers are probably correct, what is ignored is that the softball will be in the contact zone longer then the baseball because it is actually traveling slower then the baseball. Paul Nyman from Setpro had a great analogy, if you fired a cannonball at 900mph from a distance that would give you the same reaction time as the softball it would be impossible to hit because the amount of time the cannonball would spend in the contact zone would be very minute.

 

[Jeff_H]

If a hitter doesn't get off their backside when they swing then they are not hitting from a balanced position. It doesn't matter if they are swinging at a softball or a baseball. The steepness of the swing plane is a different issue than a player not getting off the backside. The steepness of the swing plane can vary between players, and is largely based on the type hitter a player sees themselves being. Bigger, stronger, homerun type hitters may choose a steeper swing plane to try and lift the ball more. Smaller, singles and contact type hitters may utilize a flatter swing plane to try and hit more low line drives, and avoid lazy flyballs.

For what it's worth, Williams says in "SOH" that he felt Epstein swung up too much. Which, once again is not the same thing as not getting off the back side. The reason why some players who were trained using Epstein's DVDs don't get off the backside, is because there is very little info in his dvds on weight shift. His new website addresses the weight shift and other issues through the use of tutorials.

We have eight cages at our park. Two of them are for softball and the other six are for baseball. When I'm at the cages I can hear what the baseball coaches are telling their players. In most cases it isn't good. IMO many baseball coaches are teaching the same stuff as a lot of softball coaches. IOW, most parents and coaches don't spend the time that some of us do to study the swing. My assistent coach is a "see-the-ball hit-the-ball" type person. I've tried to educate him on the swing so he can help me out more at practice, but he genuinely doesn't care. He has other hobbies and has no interest in learning the finer points of an efficient swing.

The fastpitch coach who says that the softball swing is different than the baseball swing, would teach the same swing in baseball and claim it was the baseball swing. Just hang out at the baseball cages and you'll know what I'm saying.

Most baseball and softball parents and coaches aren't into this stuff as much as some of us are.

This reminded me of an old encounter I had at a ball park and gave me a chuckle.

My DD started hitting balls out of the park at 13, first year 14u. We were playing in a tournament and a team was warming up right behind our dugout. The coach was doing soft toss and going on about a level swing, and hitting the bottom half of the ball to create back spin so the ball will carry farther. This was before I learned to keep my mouth shut, and I spouted off something about that not being how the best hitters hit the ball. His reply was he played baseball at Oklahoma State and that was what Gary Ward taught. Going into the last inning all of his girls are sitting in our stands waiting for the game to end, DD hits a linedrive over the centerfield fence about 220'. We meet them in bracket the next game and they walked her all 3 times she was up.

 

[softballphreak]

Blessed with speed | TuscaloosaNews.com

 

[Ken Krause]

I work with girls exclusively now, but I've worked with boys before including my own sons. I taught the same swing to both boys and girls. Won't say it was exactly the same swing I teach now, but it was always consistent between the two because to me hitting a ball is hitting a ball.

Funny that we talk about the difference between teaching males and females. I don't limit it to that. I work to understand how each individual learns best and try to deliver the information in that way. As a general rule I find that younger girls tend to be more interested in the "whys" than boys of the same age, but that could be maturity level. Boys just want to do it, whereas girls generally seem to be more patient. But not always. Some girls have no tolerance for all the explanation stuff.

One big difference in hitting between baseball and softball is that in baseball, the ball is always traveling downward to some degree, whereas in softball it can go up or down. I'm not talking riseball necessarily, but just the pitch angle itself. That adds a bit of challenge. On the other hand, softball pitchers don't generally look like they're going to stick the ball in your ear when they throw.

In an earlier post where it was mentioned about the difference in the mass of the bat and ball between baseball and softball, and how it affects contact, there is one other general difference that was left out -- strength in the upper body. The heavier ball and lighter bat, combined with lack of upper body strength (relatively speaking) adds more challenge for female hitters. They really need to use their bodies efficiently and completely to drive the ball. If you don't believe upper body strength has an effect, then we can end all the discussions about the steroid era in baseball. Somehow, I don't think that's going to happen.