CrowHopping, Replanting, etc. - Not being called by Umps

[JJsqueeze]

a couple of things:

Hal: I agree with you that if the replant of the pivot foot occurs after LFT then it would not be an advantage, seems like it would actually be a power drainer. But that is not what is in the video and not what is being discussed. I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but the point I am trying to make is that with a true crow hop is that the pivot foot replants slightly before LFT and allows a pitcher to push against it and into the stride foot plant for extra power. I also don't agree that it is always done on purpose, maybe sometimes, but after watching a few girls cry at being called for it repeatedly and not being able to change it and hearing the difficulty of other DDs trying to change it, I don't think they are intentionally doing it, it is their muscle memory taking over and it feeling natural to do so. I really like the point Bill makes with the hitch in the arm circle and I think for the dads trying to solve this that is a good place to start. If you can force your arm circle to be constant then a crow hop would start to feel really weird and would really mess up the timing. so it might be a great way of approaching the problem from a different angle and reframing it as an arm circle problem instead of a foot work problem.

 

[halskinner]

If your body is on a steep forward lean and momentum is fast strong and aggressive, you wont crow hop.JJ,

muscles really dont have memory.It is an overall mechanics issue.

If your mechanics ALLOW for it, then it can and often does happen.

The other girls you mention I would guess all use step style mechanics and are 'Standing tall' as they start their forward momentum, slowly. Have you had her try and crow hop while doing the run through drill? I dont mean walk, I mean RUN. And what happens then?

 

[JJsqueeze]

I feel you Hal, I have no doubt that there are drills and mechanics that will prevent it. But muscles definitely have a memory my friend! And making those changes can be difficult. If I ever want to remember how difficult these changes can be for my DD or anyone else battling a mechanics flaw, I just remember my last golf score and I get a lot of empathy for our girls trying to learn the complicated art of pitching.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I don't think the advantage is in the distance gain, it is in the momentum gained from that momentary "skip" from pivot to stride, it lets him push off the pivot leg into the stride leg right before release for a much stronger right hip drive than if there is no replant and push. His drag foot clearly lands for a push before LFT.

edited for Hal

JJ - seems like you are the only one talking my language here. It's a big tell though here with all the differing thoughts on something that seems so obvious. That being the replant GIVES an unfair advantage over a true pivot foot dragger.

Well it sounds like ASA made some recent "clarifications" to ensure the random application of the IP rule for the future. Awesome.....

I just feel so sorry for the innocent youths that will randomly get called for crow-hop IP and the youths that think they are abiding by a fairness rule only to face a "weaker" pitcher that is throwing as hard due to taking this skipping advantage.

I am done with this thread - maintaining respect for all your opinions.

 

[halskinner]

I feel you Hal, I have no doubt that there are drills and mechanics that will prevent it. But muscles definitely have a memory my friend! And making those changes can be difficult. If I ever want to remember how difficult these changes can be for my DD or anyone else battling a mechanics flaw, I just remember my last golf score and I get a lot of empathy for our girls trying to learn the complicated art of pitching.

Has tried to crow hop while doing the run through drill? At a quick speed? I am interested to see how she did.

This might offend a great many but, oh well; It has always amazed me how people expect to see great pitching speed using mechanics and methods that cannot produce the best speed.

 

[Stonecrabs02]

At the 10u world series my kid is pitching and she has a little hop that we have been working on correcting, but other teams coach noticed it and complained to blue... Up to this point they werent hitting her and she was hitting all her spots with good speed.. Blue approaches daughter and speaks to her about it, which in turn totally messes up my kids head, and then total melt down and the kid cant pitch..
Blue later tells me "I wasnt gonna call her on it, but I had to say something to her cuz the other coach was complaining, but Im not gonna call an illegal pitch at 10u"
Need less to say we lost the game... The part that is frustrating is you see it all the time with highest level pitchers.

I watched the Canada vs. USA game and watched both pitchers Jenna Caira Canada, and Sara Nevins USA hop repeatedly. Eschebedo hops every single pitch...

Frustrating!

 

[Ken B]

Leap or crowhop?

 

[Eric F]

Leap or crowhop?

View attachment 4310

Levitation - which is not covered in the ASA rulebook.

 

[fballchgup]

At the 10u world series my kid is pitching and she has a little hop that we have been working on correcting, but other teams coach noticed it and complained to blue... Up to this point they werent hitting her and she was hitting all her spots with good speed.. Blue approaches daughter and speaks to her about it, which in turn totally messes up my kids head, and then total melt down and the kid cant pitch..
Blue later tells me "I wasnt gonna call her on it, but I had to say something to her cuz the other coach was complaining, but Im not gonna call an illegal pitch at 10u"
Need less to say we lost the game... The part that is frustrating is you see it all the time with highest level pitchers.


I watched the Canada vs. USA game and watched both pitchers Jenna Caira Canada, and Sara Nevins USA hop repeatedly. Eschebedo hops every single pitch...

Frustrating!

This may seem like the umpire is being nice, but in fact it is part of the problem and it is the reason you see it all the time with highest level pitchers. It has been selectively (meaning rarely) enforced for the pitcher's entire career.
If you are not going to call it at 10u, when are you going to call it? 12U? 14U? Wait until they've done it that way for 5 years and can't change?
If it is a rule, then it should be called every time. Then and only then will coaches, instructors and parents make sure their pitcher is legal before they enter a game.

 

[halskinner]

I have placed a better description of a 'Skip' in a seperate reply.