Changeup Velocity

[DNeeld]

I would say there are four problems with most change-ups in softball.

1. Deception. Few pitchers work their change-up enough so that the delivery looks just like the delivery of their other pitches. Its sad how many pitchers slow down their entire body to throw the change-up.

2. The speed difference of the change-up. A lot of people seem to believe the change-up needs to come in super slow. It doesn't. A 10-15% difference from their fastest pitch, and a slight difference from their off-speed pitches. If your fastest pitch comes in at 60 and your change-up is coming in at 40, that's too much. Changes in speed don't have to be drastic to throw off the batters timing.

3. Most coaches, for whatever reason, don't call the change-up enough. The only reason to not throw a change-up is if the batter doesn't have a prayer of catching up to the pitcher's heat. If batters are making contact, change-up (and off-speed) should be called liberally. My DD's coach calls a change-up very frequently and it is very effective.

4. The old thinking that the change-up is called with 2 strikes only. The thinking should be a change-up can be called at any time. First pitch, 2 balls, full count, etc. If the batter is expecting the change-up, its nowhere near as effective.

 

[DNeeld]

Hey Texasck1, what is the "Pauly changeup"? Do you any info on it? I'd love to be able to look into it!

What type change up is this?

I am trying to work with DD on what I think is a flip change and am not sure I have been able to find a slow mo video of one. What type is Sarah Pauly’s ? Does anyone have video of each type and grips? Or is there a thread out there I am missing? Thanks.

www.discussfastpitch.com

 

[texasck1]

What type change up is this?

I am trying to work with DD on what I think is a flip change and am not sure I have been able to find a slow mo video of one. What type is Sarah Pauly’s ? Does anyone have video of each type and grips? Or is there a thread out there I am missing? Thanks.

www.discussfastpitch.com

Thanks DNeeld, I wasn't sure I could give an effective explanation. That is a great thread.

Coach Pauly showed at the clinic we went to last November to rip across the front of the ball at release and it puts a curve ball spin on it that is pretty nasty when she gets it to move. Throw to the outside corner and let it drift off the plate and drop. Makes me smile every time (sometimes it makes me giggle).

 

[DNeeld]

Thanks DNeeld, I wasn't sure I could give an effective explanation. That is a great thread.

Coach Pauly showed at the clinic we went to last November to rip across the front of the ball at release and it puts a curve ball spin on it that is pretty nasty when she gets it to move. Throw to the outside corner and let it drift off the plate and drop. Makes me smile every time (sometimes it makes me giggle).

Right, that's how my DD throws it. Of course, as was mentioned earlier, the combination of hot bats and poly-core balls lets even great pitches get hit hard on occasion. My DD threw this pitch in the state finals this year. Batter knocked it over the fence just poking at it. What can you do?

 

[texasck1]

Right, that's how my DD throws it. Of course, as was mentioned earlier, the combination of hot bats and poly-core balls lets even great pitches get hit hard on occasion. My DD threw this pitch in the state finals this year. Batter knocked it over the fence just poking at it. What can you do?

Sometimes all you can do is say good job batter and get the next one.

 

[wheresmycar]

Well, a good change up is not just about velocity, but also location. You need both.

 

[Hillhouse]

I am a Mets fan and watch 4-5 games a week. Whenever I watch MLB I marvel at the effectiveness of the changeup. In softball the changeup does not seem as effective. Maybe that's just a subjective judgement and has no basis in fact and I'm open to other opinions. One thing is clear when comparing the MLB changeup to what I see in softball, there is a significant difference in velocity when compared to a fastball. A quick foray on Baseball Savant shows that changeups are used roughly 20% of the time but that varies significantly from 5% to 30% pitcher by pitcher. The velocity difference is a lot more consistent, it is roughly 10mph or about 10-15% less than the fastball. In softball changeups are usually about 15-20mph slower, or 20-30% less than a fastball. My numbers are quick generalizations and there might be some hard research that will prove them wrong. But if they do hold up the question is does the velocity difference in softball make the pitch less effective or more vulnerable to getting hit hard. Does the velocity difference make it easier to detect so that hitters are not fooled by it?

I am absolutely perplexed by this post. A softball change up doesn't seem to be as effective???? A change up will make the average pitcher good and the good pitcher great. It's the 2nd most important pitch to have, behind the dropball.

I had a conversation with a student about this the other day. From everything I have seen watching "travel ball" and in my experiences of coaching in the NCAA, 90% of the change ups I see that get ripped aren't because they are bad or ineffective but, because they are thrown at the absolute worse and wrong times. I've seen so much of this I wouldn't even know where to begin describing it. And again, too many people confuse good pitching with bad hitting, and vice versa.

If you watch a game where some one is on the sidelines calling pitches, in 999 of 1000 cases, you can bait a change up to be thrown so easily and some good hitters have figured this out. All you have to do as a hitter is swing from your a$$ first pitch thrown, purposely missing the ball. But swing as hard as you possibly can, even fall down if need be to sell it. You're almost guaranteed a change up next pitch. Or if you rip a foul ball, pull it hard foul and be way out in front, you're almost guaranteed a change up next pitch. Teams that implement this strategy with your hitters will see it first hand, have your hitter swing like crazy at the first pitch seen. She will almost be guaranteed a change next. Moreover, for some reason, those who call pitches seem allergic to calling multiple change ups in a row. In games, I've thrown 5-6 in a row. Before anyone replies to this saying YOUR kid throws multiple in a row, congrats. I'm speaking in very general terms and maybe your kid that that 1 in 1000 that does this.

For sure, when to throw a CU is the cat and mouse part of pitching vs. hitting. But a good change up pitcher, with someone using it smartly will change (pardon the pun) the game.

 

[_MIA_]

Not sure about whether they are more effective or not in baseball, but when you watch MLB you have to remember that on average these guys are late 20's pitchers who have almost 20 years of pitching experience paired with catchers with the same amount of experience and both have fought off, and excelled over, thousands of other players who were trying to get to the same spot as they are. Not sure it is an apples to apples comparison..

 

[Capone]

I am absolutely perplexed by this post. A softball change up doesn't seem to be as effective???? A change up will make the average pitcher good and the good pitcher great. It's the 2nd most important pitch to have, behind the dropball.

I had a conversation with a student about this the other day. From everything I have seen watching "travel ball" and in my experiences of coaching in the NCAA, 90% of the change ups I see that get ripped aren't because they are bad or ineffective but, because they are thrown at the absolute worse and wrong times. I've seen so much of this I wouldn't even know where to begin describing it. And again, too many people confuse good pitching with bad hitting, and vice versa.

If you watch a game where some one is on the sidelines calling pitches, in 999 of 1000 cases, you can bait a change up to be thrown so easily and some good hitters have figured this out. All you have to do as a hitter is swing from your a$$ first pitch thrown, purposely missing the ball. But swing as hard as you possibly can, even fall down if need be to sell it. You're almost guaranteed a change up next pitch. Or if you rip a foul ball, pull it hard foul and be way out in front, you're almost guaranteed a change up next pitch. Teams that implement this strategy with your hitters will see it first hand, have your hitter swing like crazy at the first pitch seen. She will almost be guaranteed a change next. Moreover, for some reason, those who call pitches seem allergic to calling multiple change ups in a row. In games, I've thrown 5-6 in a row. Before anyone replies to this saying YOUR kid throws multiple in a row, congrats. I'm speaking in very general terms and maybe your kid that that 1 in 1000 that does this.

For sure, when to throw a CU is the cat and mouse part of pitching vs. hitting. But a good change up pitcher, with someone using it smartly will change (pardon the pun) the game.

Out of curiosity, why is the drop the most important pitch to have in your mind? Apologies if you have explained in the past. Just trying to understand.

 

[DNeeld]

Not sure about whether they are more effective or not in baseball, but when you watch MLB you have to remember that on average these guys are late 20's pitchers who have almost 20 years of pitching experience paired with catchers with the same amount of experience and both have fought off, and excelled over, thousands of other players who were trying to get to the same spot as they are. Not sure it is an apples to apples comparison..

You mean they might be better at calling pitches and setting up batters than the average 14U coach?