Changeup Velocity

[Capone]

I honestly think the difference people see (if there indeed is a notable difference) would be what @MNDad mentioned and which I alluded to in my first post..MLB CU are probably just better than most of the CU you see in softball for various reasons (more movement, better deception,etc)...

I started thinking of the other pitches, vs just change ups when it came to reaction time.

 

[ArmWhip]

Reaction time is only one factor when it comes to hitting. Ball velocity is another factor. The faster the ball is moving the more difficulty the eye has in tracking it and the less information the brain gets for the bat launch decision. As the ball gets closer to the hitter the eye simply can't move fast enough to keep up with it and loses contact, the old adage of 'see the bat hit ball' is a physical impossibility at any reasonable speed. So the slower the ball is traveling the further the eye can track it and allow the hitter to make later adjustments.

Then there is the size of the ball. Obviously the softball is much bigger and it is optical yellow, therefore it is easier to track. Plus being bigger there is more aerodynamic drag and it will slow down faster.

You also have to look at the difference in distance between the rubber and the plate. Initially you might think that the longer distance in baseball is an advantage for the hitter, maybe, maybe not. Take an eye chart and put it where the softball pitcher releases the ball. See how many lines you can read. Then place it where the baseball is released and do the same. For all we know there may be a minimum distance which has to be reached before the eye/brain can begin to gather useful information.

On the other end of the equation you have the differences in bat weight. Being significantly lighter the softball bat can be launched later than the heavier baseball bat and still get to the contact point on time. And being lighter the softball bat has less momentum so it is easier to make in-swing adjustments.

 

[_MIA_]

Reaction time is only one factor when it comes to hitting. Ball velocity is another factor. The faster the ball is moving the more difficulty the eye has in tracking it and the less information the brain gets for the bat launch decision. As the ball gets closer to the hitter the eye simply can't move fast enough to keep up with it and loses contact, the old adage of 'see the bat hit ball' is a physical impossibility at any reasonable speed. So the slower the ball is traveling the further the eye can track it and allow the hitter to make later adjustments.

Then there is the size of the ball. Obviously the softball is much bigger and it is optical yellow, therefore it is easier to track. Plus being bigger there is more aerodynamic drag and it will slow down faster.

You also have to look at the difference in distance between the rubber and the plate. Initially you might think that the longer distance in baseball is an advantage for the hitter, maybe, maybe not. Take an eye chart and put it where the softball pitcher releases the ball. See how many lines you can read. Then place it where the baseball is released and do the same. For all we know there may be a minimum distance which has to be reached before the eye/brain can begin to gather useful information.

On the other end of the equation you have the differences in bat weight. Being significantly lighter the softball bat can be launched later than the heavier baseball bat and still get to the contact point on time. And being lighter the softball bat has less momentum so it is easier to make in-swing adjustments.

Your other points are good ones but I am not sure about the bold. Bats are certainly lighter but most MLB hitters are stronger than females...I wonder if there are time to contact numbers out there for elite softball and baseball hitters. If I had to guess they would probably be similar.

 

[radness]

Spin is a visual factor.

 

[Hillhouse]

Then there is the size of the ball. Obviously the softball is much bigger and it is optical yellow, therefore it is easier to track. Plus being bigger there is more aerodynamic drag and it will slow down faster.

Honestly, I am getting thoroughly confused by the conversation and Pattar is hurting my feelings (LOL).

Yes, the ball is bigger in softball. However, the bats are significantly thinner than baseball bats too, which makes that aspect equal in my opinion.

Anyway, I am unable to debate or discuss with too much intelligence why or if a baseball change up is more effective than a softball one. I have NEVER played a single game of baseball, which means I've never tried to hit one. So it's impossible for me to talk about this from experience. All I can tell you is, a lot of guys that I've played ball against have played both baseball and FP softball. Major leaguers on down to Al Bundy types that relive their High School days regularly. Every. Single. One. bar none, have said fastpitch softball is 100x harder to hit than baseball. Some say 1000x harder. In my experience pitching against them, the riseball is obviously extremely effective as they're not used to anything going up at them. But, probably the most effective pitch against them is the change up. They gear up with those wind-ups in their swing load, the big leg kick, the whole 9 yards, then swing from their heels looking like fools.

Take that for what it's worth.

 

[_MIA_]

Pattar is hurting my feelings (LOL).

Not this again..last time when it appeared I did this to you I had a guy follow me around on here like a puppy for 2 weeks and eventually threaten to come to my house and beat me up

 

[radness]

Not this again..last time when it appeared I did this to you I had a guy follow me around on here like a puppy for 2 weeks and eventually threaten to come to my house and beat me up

Shush....you may evoke the computor puppy again

 

[S Spiff]

I see two different but positive results from changeups. It looks like two very different approaches to me.

The first result usually comes with a higher speed differential from other pitches the batter is expecting: the batter is way out in front and swings and misses. The batter looks silly. But the second, positive result I see from changeups (or whatever variety of off-speed pitch you want to call it) is that a hitter puts the ball in play but is fooled enough they don't center it up. The batter just misses. There is way less speed differential leading to the second result. Hopefully, they roll over and ground out to the shortstop for an easy out. Result one is fun, but easier to recognize as skills increase. A pitch with a more subtle speed difference may be less likely to induce a swing and miss but harder for a hitter to recognize.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that before you can discuss what speed differential a changeup needs to have, it looks to me like you need to decide on the result you are trying to achieve.

(We're rained out so I'm thinking too much)