A rules question for non-umpires

[MTR]

I thought this was a fun thread.

Please do some more if you are so inclined and send MTR an IM explaining what no umpires means.

I did not respond to the play, just the terminology. If you are going to work on something, you should work to get it right.

Now, I'm going to respectfully correct my friend. For the umpire to rule the runner out, the umpire must judge that the other fielder WOULD have gotten an out, not just make a play.

Otherwise, it is simply a live ball.

 

[marriard]

The point of contention is if the RF could "make an out". If she can it's a DBO. If not it's a live ball.

I would love to know the permutations to "make an out"

Note in USSSA it says infielder (not any fielder) so there are some differences in rule codes. RF would not matter in this case.

And "make an out" is clearly an umpires judgement call, so that is up to them - not unlike the 'infield fly effort' call.

 

[chinamigarden]

Live ball if F4 does not have a play on the ball. I have seen it called properly. Riles up the fans but its correct.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Note in USSSA it says infielder (not any fielder) so there are some differences in rule codes. RF would not matter in this case.

And "make an out" is clearly an umpires judgement call, so that is up to them - not unlike the 'infield fly effort' call.

The OP quoted ASA in another post so I assumed it was and ASA tournament.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

The OP quoted ASA in another post so I assumed it was and ASA tournament.

Not to be narrow, but the OP stated that this occurred in a college fall game.

The rule is as follows: The runner is not out,

12.6.3 When not in contact with a base, the base runner is hit with a fair
untouched batted ball that has passed a fielder (excluding the pitcher), and,
in the umpire’s judgment, no other fielder had a reasonable chance to make
a play.​

 

[Ajaywill]

I did not respond to the play, just the terminology. If you are going to work on something, you should work to get it right.

Now, I'm going to respectfully correct my friend. For the umpire to rule the runner out, the umpire must judge that the other fielder WOULD have gotten an out, not just make a play.

Otherwise, it is simply a live ball.

My friend (MTR) is correct. The permutation for "making an out" is umpire judgement.

I deliberately stated in the OP that F9 was playing deep implying that she would not have the opportunity to make an out on the play.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Now, I'm going to respectfully correct my friend. For the umpire to rule the runner out, the umpire must judge that the other fielder WOULD have gotten an out, not just make a play.

Woulda, shoulda or coulda? How does an umpire judge whether the fielder WOULD have caught it and made a good throw - and another player WOULD have caught the throw and made the out?

Is the criteria for making an out in this case different than for other forms of runner interference (i.e. an opportunity to make an out)?

 

[marriard]

Woulda, shoulda or coulda? How does an umpire judge whether the fielder WOULD have caught it and made a good throw - and another player WOULD have caught the throw and made the out?

Is the criteria for making an out in this case different than for other forms of runner interference (i.e. an opportunity to make an out)?

The rules never say 'would have' - they always have language such as 'reasonable chance', 'normal effort' etc. No different to an infield fly, or awarding bases - totally their call using their judgement (with guidelines they should have read in most cases).

 

[Umpire]

The rules never say 'would have' - they always have language such as 'reasonable chance', 'normal effort' etc. No different to an infield fly, or awarding bases - totally their call using their judgement (with guidelines they should have read in most cases).

Actually, a quick search of the NCAA rule book shows 58 instances where the term "would have" is used. I would have to say that that is a far cry from "never."

 

[Umpire]

12.17.1 When an umpire, or a base runner not in contact with a base, is struck by a fair batted ball after it has passed an infielder (other than the pitcher), and, in the judgment of the umpire, no other infielder had a reasonable chance to make a play. - THE BALL IS LIVE.