Coaches - Allow Players to pickup?

[4dds]

I think it's important to differentiate between picking up for a showcase vs picking up for a tournament. In my earlier post, I mentioned that being a guest player in a showcase where you know that a college you're interested in will be in attendance is a good thing. In showcases, winning and losing isn't all that important, and where there is cost involved I would expect that many parents would not want to shell out hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars to attend a showcase if none of the colleges that they're looking at will be there. So guest players are important.

At the competitive tournament level, however, I can see a lot of problems with bringing in guest players. If you're the coach of a team that doesn't have the horses to compete at PGF Nationals, then why go? It's an ego trip and an advertisement for the organization more than a service to the players. If you've played together as a team for a whole season, but then need to import three hired guns to win, are you really the best team? If you're the starting 3B but get replaced by a stud fill-in during Nationals bracket play, is that trophy going on your shelf or in your closet?

Agreed. We are not at the recruiting age to have girls wanting to go to showcases yet and that will be a different animal.




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[Laphoneman]

Committed to a team means my dd will be at every practice and game possible that gets scheduled. My dd will do what ever we allow her to the rest of the time. I will let the coach know in advance she will be playing for a different team. I get this understood before we agree to play with a team. If this is ever a problem the coach is welcome to let me know and we can join a different team. My commitment is to my DD I’m looking for the best coach I can find to improve her game.

 

[twoplacesatonce]

Coaches, how do you feel about allowing your players to pickup when you are not playing?

It's easy, we're here for the kids, not ourselves. Always. Do. What's. Best. For. Them.

 

[radness]

I am a assistant coach on my dd's 14u team and myself and the other coaches dont like our girls subbing for other teams. There are to many things that can go wrong. INJURY being the number 1 and most important thing. Anything can happen on any fri sat sun playing for our team let alone playing for other teams. Picking up a sub to play when you are missing a girl is a slippery slope. The sub we pick up will play every single inning of every game. Some parents dont understand why we have done that. We told them they are taking time out of their weekend to play with us they are going to play. We have done that once and wont do it again if all of our players cant make it we wont play.

Did i read this correct?
Your team wont let your players guest for other teams,
Yet your team does pick up guest players?

Injury aspect causes concern?
Your players wont get hurt guesting on another team....
But guest players may get hurt playing on your team.

Hmmmm
Might be reasonable to re-think that.

 

[4dds]

i would not go to a big travel intensive tournament with only 10. all summer, all the families have a lot less invested in a single weekend tournament than they do in a national/world one (travel, vacation time, etc.). I would be highly pissed at a coach who only took 10, and then we had to forfeit games because Sally turned her ankle, Mary is vomiting from the bad food at the restaurant last night, etc.. Also, at bigger tournaments, more chances of playing a lot of games in single day, especially last day (DDs team last spring played 5 full games on last day in 95+ heat, HI over 105 all day).

and what grmerrill had it correct, play them no more or no less than a regular member of the team, unless there is an understanding otherwise. DD has been on teams where they pulled players from younger teams in org just for single day, with understanding they probably would not play much (they were 10th on the roster for the day). but generally, if you are having a guest player, you are not going to have a lot sitting the bench anyway

So if you are not ok going to a big tournament with 10 why not add players early in the season. I’ve seen plenty of days at regular tournaments where you play 5+ games in 100* heat. Injuries and sickness can happen during regular season same as out of town events, so if that’s a worry why not add the extra player or 2 from the start. Waiting until a week or two before the big show and telling everyone “hey we’re bringing a few extras with us” don’t settle well.


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[FP26]

Ok so I have a question for everyone that is for picking up. What do you consider to be a commitment to a team? I’ve never even thought about taking my dd’s to play with another team when their teams were off. I have however had a coach decide they wanted to pick up a player to take to worlds with us because we were short players (we were going with 10 the same number we had played with all summer). And call me insecure or whatever you want. I stand by my statement. I don’t want my players picking up and I’m not picking others up.


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I cannot speak for others, but I will answer from my experience.

DD is a pitcher. When she was asked to play for another team, it was only because a pitcher was needed. She was always treated fairly (in my opinion) by the team that asked her to play. There was only one time that she had an issue. One pitcher told their coach she would not be available for a particular weekend, so DD was asked to play. When she arrived, we learned that plans had changed and the other girl showed up anyway. DD stayed for Saturday, played sparingly and then talked to the coach herself after the games (not even prompted by me). She told the coach that if she was needed on Sunday, she would be glad to come back, but if the other girl was available, she did not feel right taking time away from her or others. She played for this team several times and had a good relationship with the coach, so it worked out for the best.

As a coach, I only picked up players when needed. My personal rules were easy. We have to have 3 pitchers, 2 catchers, and a minimum of 10 players. If we are short with any of those numbers, we either find a pick up player or we don't play. Just to be clear, long before we even schedule our tournaments, I get with all the families to learn their vacation plans. If we know in advance that a certain weekend will not work for our team, we simply do not schedule a tournament. However, once the schedule is created, we have a roster full of players that expect to play those weekends. We are not going to cancel an event just because one or two girls changed their plans. That isn't fair to the other 8 or 9 that are available. That is when we add pick up players. If we add pickup players, our 8 or 9 regular roster players now get to play that weekend. If we choose to cancel, none of them play. In my opinion that is a lot worse than losing a few innings to a pickup player.

As Rick M stated, the showcase situation is completely different. As coaches we have an entirely different responsibility when it comes to showcasing.

Just to add... This policy was discussed with the parents in advance, so everyone knew exactly what our plan was and how we handled it. We were also completely honest with each pickup player we added. I would not support picking up a player and then sitting regular roster players excessively. I have seen that happen and I do not agree with it.

 

[texasck1]

My DD (12U) has picked up several times and her coaches have never had a problem. Even if it meant missing a practice to do it. They told me when we informed them, that game time reps were better than anything they could do in practice and had no problem. Even encouraged it.

I think we need to make a distinction between picking up because you have a shortage for some reason and picking up a player or 3 to make you more competitive in a particular tournament. Completely different situations and I have different opinions on each.

Ex. We played in state tournament last year against a team that we regularly see, showed up with their full roster plus 3 from another stronger team that we also were familiar with (14 players at a 10U tournament). Roster players sat the whole game while the 3 pickups played. I have a big problem with that and if my DD had been on that team, we would have told him to stuff it and walked on the spot. Due paying player deserve to have the opportunity to play.

IMO, only use pickups when you are short. Then you can be fair to both your players and the pickups with decent amounts of playing time for everyone. We will only pickup if there is a shortage to make sure we are not in those situations.

We also go a little further to make sure we avoid compromising situations. We do not pickup for teams in our area. We will pickup with team near Grandparents or other family members who don't get to see DD play very often. Usually 2-3 hours away. FB groups are great at finding pickups opportunities. That said, we still get asked to join teams and told we don't have to practice with them just show up for tournaments. Not gonna happen.

 

[bmakj]

So if you are not ok going to a big tournament with 10 why not add players early in the season. I’ve seen plenty of days at regular tournaments where you play 5+ games in 100* heat. Injuries and sickness can happen during regular season same as out of town events, so if that’s a worry why not add the extra player or 2 from the start. Waiting until a week or two before the big show and telling everyone “hey we’re bringing a few extras with us” don’t settle well.


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If roster was only 10, I would (if I were the coach) be looking to add players no matter what time of season. 10 is not enough. kids get sick, hurt, quit, get kicked off, have family functions they cannot miss, etc. to me a coach who is keeping roster that small deliberately is probably a parent coach who knows his kid is in the 7-10 slot, and picking up another player or two might move them into the 9-12 slot. cannot think of another reason to keep roster that small, especially if you are not going to use guests. If you can only get 10 to commit, OK, but then you should be open to guest players, to see if they fit and might possibly want to join.

also, if we have to withdraw from a weekend tournament mid tournament, I might be out a few hundred $, dont like it but that is life. For a big weeklong tournament outlay might a couple of thousand $ (hotels, air?, mileage, etc.), get a bit more upset about flushing that kind of money down the drain (might not be an issue for you though). that is why I am OK with rolling dice for smaller tournaments with 10, less to "lose".

it is not about bringing in a ringer to chase a trophy, most of the times DDs teams have had guest players, they generally talentwise were in the bottom third of the team they guested for. it is about making certain you are not jeapordizing the ability to field a team.

I do think coaches who bring in guest players unannounced when team has full or nearly full complement is shady. as is playing them more than regulars. also shady to ask them to come and have them sit most of the time.

everyone needs to remember this game/sport really belongs to the girls playing. if you are doing things to limit their opportunities, you are probably in it for the wrong reasons.

 

[cbass]

Need some feedback with this:
DD is in her 3rd year playing 10U. We joined a good team with a second year head coach. Things so far have been good, even though its USSSA, we are top 15 in the nation. Shes 1 or 2 pitcher and top 3 batter. Coach gets an opportunity to for his kid to play 12u with a different organization, brings the other coach's kid with and cancels practice, without telling the parents anything about the 2 kids picking up for a 12u team. A few of the parents have found out and waited for the coach to say something but hasn't. One parent mentioned they were going to go to the tournament to support our organizations 12u team, and he pulled her aside after practice and explained why practice was canceled. Makes us want to leave. They have been some other questionable stuff but this, I think, is shady. We do have an opportunity to jump on a local PGF team and continue the season. Just wondering what others would do in this situation?

 

[bmakj]

Need some feedback with this:
DD is in her 3rd year playing 10U. We joined a good team with a second year head coach. Things so far have been good, even though its USSSA, we are top 15 in the nation. Shes 1 or 2 pitcher and top 3 batter. Coach gets an opportunity to for his kid to play 12u with a different organization, brings the other coach's kid with and cancels practice, without telling the parents anything about the 2 kids picking up for a 12u team. A few of the parents have found out and waited for the coach to say something but hasn't. One parent mentioned they were going to go to the tournament to support our organizations 12u team, and he pulled her aside after practice and explained why practice was canceled. Makes us want to leave. They have been some other questionable stuff but this, I think, is shady. We do have an opportunity to jump on a local PGF team and continue the season. Just wondering what others would do in this situation?

time for a frank discussion. do NOT let it turn into an interrogation on how you found out / know about it, irrelevant at this point. Maybe he is thinking of jumping ship with this other AC and both DDs? If so, can the team survive (not can it continue at same level, chances are no, can it b held together, ie are you and or others willing to jump in, can you find more girls? might be innocuous reasons as well (friends with the coach, they needed players in a pinch (since it sounds like this was last minute, otherwise why have the practice scheduled). be polite but direct, and speak your mind. and listen.

some things to keep in the back of your head
-what year are HC and AC DDs that guested for 12u team?
-what year are most of the girls on the team?
-at 10u and 12u, do not get caught up in rankings, etc., it is about the girls developing.

if after hearing his side of things, if you feel that this and the unmentioned stuff is sufficient, jump if you have a landing spot. otherwise, I suggest toughing it out for the season. remember, a team that wants you to jump midseason is probably less likely to allow a player to work out of a slump, etc.