Why we need some kind of pitch/inning count in softball!

[LEsoftballdad]

Totally get what you’re saying and that’s why I specified “sometimes worse.” My DD’s HS team had no other pitcher her senior year. Because it was 2021 and games were being canceled and rescheduled like crazy due to Covid she sometimes pitched 3-4 games per week without a recovery day in between. It definitely had an impact on her that season.

That’s why I’m always a little jealous of the powerhouse HS teams who have at least 2 decent / very good pitchers. What boggles my mind is how in most cases, they still only throw one, even against the weak teams. But I get it - it seems it’s more about the accolades at that point.

Yeah, we went through the same thing with my younger daughter this spring, hence the case of tendonitis she had in May.

 

[Tazman]

Let's ask this question.

How many pitchers families want to be on a team where there are 4 pitchers?

I do all day. But not as P4. We are in this situation right now with P2 injured wishing we had 4 vs 3.

 

[Tazman]

Imagine if they limited the number of swings each batter could take on each day (practice or in a game) based on the air quality index.

Think of the children!

One of these things is not like the other. You can pick your nose a thousand times a day but it's not the same as throwing 100 pitches.

 

[sjw62000]

Been following this thread, because it is interesting to see different takes on the matter.

There is some quality research out there on stopping force, shoulder rotation and the like. Though I’m too lazy to include any links.

Here’s my two cents (probably not even worth that).

I’m a pitching coach at a JUCO (read asst. Coach, head grounds keeper, etc.) The Fall season is where we will spend time working to 120 pitches, with an eye on fatigue and how our pitchers start to shortcut as they become fatigued. The goal being to prepare pitchers to pitch complete games and to understand what happens to their mechanics as they become fatigued. It’s been my experience that we start to see overuse injuries in older players, 14U and beyond.

Is there any correlation between younger kids not throwing as hard, recovering faster? IDK.

In summation, we are not likely to see any rule change regarding this. So it’s vital that we teach our players the difference between soreness and pain. It’s vital that as our athletes grow we make it OK for them to come to us and tell us they are hurting.

Did this lend to the thread, maybe, maybe not.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Well Pitch counts is post topic. Glad discussion has found its path to this.
Can definitely understand eliminate the ludicrous.

Do think it would change things.

I could see a few changes.
1. Teams might try to run up counts leading to more total pitches. I could definitely see a team trying to get a pitcher out of the game.
2. Teams May elect to forfeit a pool game to save pitching.
3. Teams may have to forfeit a bracket game or throw a non pitcher. Many teams I know of do not have adequate pitching to go deep in tournaments, however this is normally not an issue for these teams because of rarely advancing deep into bracket.
4. Teams maybe disbanded.
5. Double elimination tournaments may disappear.
6. Many teams play league and develop pitchers to save better pitchers for the weekend. Could see some pitching top pitchers since weekend would be limited. #1 might pitch same amount.
7. Pitchers, particularly within an org, being pressured to sub more.


Some may not be bad, and others may exist.

 

[El Oso]

Imagine if they limited the number of swings each batter could take on each day (practice or in a game) based on the air quality index.

Think of the children!

Probably the worst analogy I've ever seen on this forum and let me tell you, that is a high bar.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Probably the worst analogy I've ever seen on this forum and let me tell you, that is a high bar.

And he'll never respond.

 

[RADcatcher]

I could see a few changes.
1. Teams might try to run up counts leading to more total pitches. I could definitely see a team trying to get a pitcher out of the game.
2. Teams May elect to forfeit a pool game to save pitching.
3. Teams may have to forfeit a bracket game or throw a non pitcher. Many teams I know of do not have adequate pitching to go deep in tournaments, however this is normally not an issue for these teams because of rarely advancing deep into bracket.
4. Teams maybe disbanded.
5. Double elimination tournaments may disappear.
6. Many teams play league and develop pitchers to save better pitchers for the weekend. Could see some pitching top pitchers since weekend would be limited. #1 might pitch same amount.
7. Pitchers, particularly within an org, being pressured to sub more.


Some may not be bad, and others may exist.

Like this list thinking it through!
Agree with its probability!

 

[dbronstein]

I'm in favor of pitch counts or other limits. But it will end up with the same issue as baseball - kids playing on multiple teams with no coordination between the coaches. The pitcher plays in a weekend tourney with his travel team and pitches whatever the limit is. Then he has rec league game on Monday and pitches again. Then he has games with his school team on Tuesday and Friday and pitches yet again. Then another tournament with the travel team on the weekend. And so on.

Yes it's up to the parents to monitor it, but a lot of parents have little or no knowledge and trust the coaches. And the coaches don't always know that the kid pitched the day before, or they don't care because they need him to pitch for them.

 

[FP26]

I have always been in favor of a common sense approach. Unfortunately some people/coaches seem to be challenged when it comes to common sense. Sorry...

• Pitch count -- can be tricky because what do you actually count? Do warm ups count? Throwing in a bull pen is not the same as throwing live in a game. DD's warm up routine was mostly walk throughs. She would only throw 15 to 20 actual "pitches" during a pre-game warm up.
• Innings -- There can be a huge difference from inning to inning. My DD's favorite thing was a 3 pitch inning and she had several of them throughout the years. That said, I have seen innings that were 30 pitches or more.
• Games -- Huge differences again. I remember one no-hitter that DD threw. It was against a weaker team and the game only went 5 innings. I don't remember the exact number, but her count was in the low 40's. She has also had games that she threw well over 100 pitches. One high school game comes to mind. The game went 11 innings and her pitch count was close to 140.

We could build a system that would take all of these factors into consideration but then it may be difficult for people to track or utilize. Honestly, I'm not sure what the right answer is.