Why we need some kind of pitch/inning count in softball!

[_MIA_]

Yes more game work.
Not sure if that means less frustration or quitting from it.

Less frustration from not being used. The other reasons for frustration obviously will still exist (and need to be managed by parent/coach)

 

[Vertigo]

I sometimes feel that HS ball actually causes more harm to pitchers than TB. Typically only one pitcher is used, and are even thrown against the weaker teams when it isn’t necessary. Defenses in HS teams can vary greatly, so sometimes you’ll have a pitcher pitching 4-5+ “outs” an inning - for 7 innings. Granted it supposed to be maybe 2 games per week but with bad weather you’ll see 4 games some weeks. It can be a lot.

Parents don’t tend to bat an eye because they like the accolades that come with it if the pitcher does well.

 

[lostcreek1]

But your answer was just depends on whether or not pitchers families would want to be on teams with four pitchers.


So I asked for a number to help this discussion Move Along.

You shared example of these tournament venues.
Small one day tournaments can have five or six games. Cuz can be only an hour and 15 minutes. Two day tournaments can easily be six games.

Give a number of pitches and the probability will be each team will need to have minimum four pitchers.

No more then 2 games in one day or 3 games in two days. Would be a good start. That way there is no how

So proximity of 80 to 90 pitches per game that's 160 to 180 pitches per one day. Plus warm ups makes that over 200.
( but viewing it as games rather than pitches it may not be the accurate way to go)

Hmmm
Not Sure that's limiting pitch count from what already happens.

That would be the easiest way to do it. No counting pitches etc etc. My problem is not the girls that are getting a number of pitches that could be argued on wether it was to much or not. But taking care of the girls that are pitching enough that there really is no argument. At almost every tournament I attend this year at the 10u level there were at least one team or more that was pitching one girl 3 games or more in a single day. Up to 6 games in a single day those are the girls I would like to see protected from themselves and there ignorant coaches and parents.

 

[RADcatcher]

No more then 2 games in one day or 3 games in two days. Would be a good start.

That would be the easiest way to do it. No counting pitches etc etc.

My problem is not the girls that are getting a number of pitches that could be argued on wether it was to much or not.

Oh... okay that clarifies

But taking care of the girls that are pitching enough

Gotcha, start with a measurement where it should definitely be enough.

that there really is no argument.

Can see that perspective.

 

[daywalkerdad]

So proximity of 80 to 90 pitches per game that's 160 to 180 pitches per one day. Plus warm ups makes that over 200.
( but viewing it as games rather than pitches it may not be the accurate way to go)

Hmmm
Not Sure that's limiting pitch count from what already happens.

I think games is better than pitches so you do have leeway and not pulling a pitcher in middle of the 5th in championship game.

I do not think anyone wants to change the normal, just eliminate the ludicrous.

I am afraid going too low would have unintended consequences.

 

[lostcreek1]

I do not think anyone wants to change the normal, just eliminate the ludicrous.

This, and it would be a simple fix.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

So, there are a lot of nuances with this pitch count thing to digest. In college, it has been common for girls to throw two full games in one day, although that appears to be changing. We see the same thing in travel ball, especially in bracket play. I have never seen it happen in HS ball, though.

Here's the big difference between travel and college. Colleges have training staffs to take care of the athletes after and during games. Even my older daughter's D3 school had an AT at every game, home or away, and the PT department was open after every home game. So, her knees would get treated with ice and therapy in every game. How many travel teams have a dedicated AT on staff? Any? Every night at the hotel, we would get the icing rig out for my daughter and make sure she got the best treatment I could give her. We even bring our Tenz unit and massage gun with us to every event, but it's not the same as they can get in college.

@Vertigo, the only reason I disagree about why school ball can be worse is because of the warming up and shutting down cycle you rarely see in school ball. I agree with the extra outs they always seem to need to get on their own because of incompetent players.

 

[RADcatcher]

I think games is better than pitches so you do have leeway and not pulling a pitcher in middle of the 5th in championship game.

I do not think anyone wants to change the normal, just eliminate the ludicrous.

Well Pitch counts is post topic. Glad discussion has found its path to this.
Can definitely understand eliminate the ludicrous.

I am afraid going too low would have unintended consequences.

Do think it would change things.

 

[RADcatcher]

So, there are a lot of nuances with this pitch count thing to digest. In college, it has been common for girls to throw two full games in one day, although that appears to be changing. We see the same thing in travel ball, especially in bracket play. I have never seen it happen in HS ball, though.

Here's the big difference between travel and college. Colleges have training staffs to take care of the athletes after and during games. Even my older daughter's D3 school had an AT at every game, home or away, and the PT department was open after every home game. So, her knees would get treated with ice and therapy in every game. How many travel teams have a dedicated AT on staff? Any? Every night at the hotel, we would get the icing rig out for my daughter and make sure she got the best treatment I could give her. We even bring our Tenz unit and massage gun with us to every event, but it's not the same as they can get in college.

@Vertigo, the only reason I disagree about why school ball can be worse is because of the warming up and shutting down cycle you rarely see in school ball. I agree with the extra outs they always seem to need to get on their own because of incompetent players.

Yes PT department helpful.

Helped me recover from extremely bad sprained ankle. Rehab process and being taped for games.

...That injury was from dancing at a fraternity party

 

[Vertigo]

@Vertigo, the only reason I disagree about why school ball can be worse is because of the warming up and shutting down cycle you rarely see in school ball. I agree with the extra outs they always seem to need to get on their own because of incompetent players.

Totally get what you’re saying and that’s why I specified “sometimes worse.” My DD’s HS team had no other pitcher her senior year. Because it was 2021 and games were being canceled and rescheduled like crazy due to Covid she sometimes pitched 3-4 games per week without a recovery day in between. It definitely had an impact on her that season.

That’s why I’m always a little jealous of the powerhouse HS teams who have at least 2 decent / very good pitchers. What boggles my mind is how in most cases, they still only throw one, even against the weak teams. But I get it - it seems it’s more about the accolades at that point.