When should an umpire just be quiet?

[Strike2]

But I’m self-aware enough to know that if you could go back in time, and ask me to explain the lookback rule when I was coaching DD’s first-year 10U Rec team as one of two volunteers who were willing to put in the time, I’d probably have gotten it wrong.

If you fully understood lookback after the first year of 10U Rec, you were way ahead of many people, including me.

At younger ages, I really valued umpires who made the effort explain the application of some of the more arcane rules specific to girl's FP. I never liked seeing a game stop for a convention, but greatly appreciated some between-inning education.

In a 12U game, an umpire told me mid-inning that our catcher was blocking part of his view by rising up a bit during some pitches. Really appreciated that as well.

I don't think anyone wants an umpire "coaching" players on their technique, but a quick explanation to a player of a call, or the education of a beginning pitcher/catcher on the rules isn't something to get worked up over.

 

[radness]

These questions from the original post
ARE coaching questions

agree with and copying your answers at El Oso

 

[radness]

Thinking about this more... this thread is one of the reasons I just don't do ANY coaching when I am officiating. Trying to make the decision of when and where Is it OK? Where it is not? Is this situation OK? What level is it OK? Etc... Don't need to do any of that.

It just makes it so much easier to just not do it - that decision is always a good one.

Let the coaches handle it. Just bring them in, let them do their job.

Completely agree.

LOL unless the umpire wants to start asking coaches their 'official opinions'
if they think plays on the field where outs or not...

 

[EdLovrich]

LOL unless the umpire wants to start asking coaches their 'official opinions'
if they think plays on the field where outs or not...

Never had the problem of having to ask for that input, coaches usually seem eager to supply it.....

 

[radness]

Never had the problem of having to ask for that input, coaches usually seem eager to supply it.....

... are you saying you've asked a coach to make the call safe or out?

 

[CoachJD]

There is a post currently in the rules forum about interference by the batter and it branched out into an umpire coaching a C on throwing down to 3B despite her worries of hitting the batter. I would like to ask the following question(s):

1) When, if ever, is it OK for an umpire to 'coach' one of YOUR players?

2) Does your answer to 1) depend on age/skill level of the teams?

3) Do/would you consider it coaching if, while the umpire is cleaning the plate, for instance, he tells C that she is not getting the corner pitch because of the way she is receiving the ball?

4) Would you consider it coaching if the BU told your runner that she is getting close to leaving early?

5) Do your answers change if the umpire is doing this with players from the other team?

There is a fine line between preventive umpiring and coaching, what an umpire may think of as preventing something from happening; telling a runner she is getting close to leaving early, or mentioning to a pitcher that she is getting close to an illegal pitch may be seen by a HC as inappropriate coaching of his players or the opponent. There is also a huge difference between these examples and telling a fielder that a runner missed a base or telling a pitcher that her mechanics are getting sloppy and that is why she is having trouble hitting her spots and "this" how to correct it.

1) Don't talk to my players about mechanics, strategy, etc. Don't tell them a better way to do things. I do not mind rule-based explanations, though I'd like to be there for the explanation if possible "I called the illegal pitch because you brought your hands together twice, like this" or "Here's why that was obstruction..." This could be called coaching. I don't think it's inappropriate.

2) Yes, but our young teams play in a neighborhood/rec league where we all know each other. I have no problem with some of the umpires helping a 7 year old remember where to stand in the box, for example. Don't do this in our high school games.

3) I'd hope the catcher would respond "You're supposed to be watching the ball, not how I catch it." In all seriousness, I don't like how you worded that. But if you said, "you keep moving into my line of sight," I think that's fine. In that case, you're not directly saying you would be calling certain pitches if not for X.

4) There's no such thing as close to leaving early. Either you left early or you didn't. If the ball is 1 mm off the finger of the pitcher, the runner is not close to leaving early. She's off the base at the best possible time (and yes, I realize nobody can see that 1mm gap in live action).

5) Nope.

I don't think an umpire should engage in preventive umpiring with non-safety issues, but I also reject the "almost breaking a rule" premise. Either you leave early or you don't. Your pitch is either legal or it's not. What's "close to an illegal pitch"? If an umpire came up to me and said "Just letting you know what your pitcher is doing is almost illegal" my response would be "But it's not actually illegal?" If you confirm it's not, I won't even say anything to her because you just told me what she's doing is fine.

 

[CoachJD]

Quite often, I will do it even at the HS level just to let the player know I am watching for something (proper pause to simulate taking a sign, leaving early, C pulling a pitch from outside the zone into it thinking they will 'buy' a strike for the P). Are these acceptable in your view or should an umpire just keep to himself?

If you have a particular umpiring focus, bring it up at the pregame meeting. If a catcher is just "framing" in an obnoxious way, I don't think you should tell them to stop it. Just call the game. Maybe tell the coach after the game so he can address it.

 

[El Oso]

If you have a particular umpiring focus, bring it up at the pregame meeting. If a catcher is just "framing" in an obnoxious way, I don't think you should tell them to stop it. Just call the game. Maybe tell the coach after the game so he can address it.

Curious -- What constitutes "an obnoxious" way in regards to framing? Seems very subjective.

 

[EdLovrich]

What's "close to an illegal pitch"?

there is a hole developing in front of the pitcher's plate AND the P's foot looks like it may be coming above the level of the ground, I am not convinced it is illegal, but it is definitely different than it was earlier in the game, in other words, the P is getting close, but I am unsure at this point if it is illegal, just different than it was when the game started. Or, a P is not pausing as long as she was earlier in the game and borderline to not 'simulating taking a sign' It isn't illegal yet, but if it gets any worse it will be called. (EDIT: In either case, it is not the motion she started the game with, but something that has changed during the course of the game, perhaps nerves, perhaps fatigue, perhaps a minor injury, perhaps just a lose of focus, I don't care and am not going to adress any of those things. The delivery is different than it was and if the change continues/worsens it will cross into illegal territory.)

Quoted from my earlier post:

3) Do/would you consider it coaching if, while the umpire is cleaning the plate, for instance, he tells C that she is not getting the corner pitch because of the way she is receiving the ball?

Let me be a bit more clear on this point, the catcher is not framing the pitch but clearly pulling it from out of the zone into the zone, then questioning why it is a ball, or HC is asking C where that pitch was and she says, "I dont know, I caught it right over the plate". If the catcher is puling the pitch into the zone, then she, obviously thought it was out of the zone to begin with.

Given that, hopefully, more straight forward statement of what I was talking about: Coaches, is it appropriate, especially at the higher levels, to have a quiet conversation with your C about how we (she and I) both know what is going on and all she is doing is taking away my chance to get a good look at where the close pitch actually was?

 

[Northball]

So umpires, when you call an illegal pitch, do you accompany the call with the reason why? Do you wait to be asked why? Do you declare it just loud enough for the catcher to hear, louder for the coach to hear, or even louder for everyone's benefit?