When should an umpire just be quiet?

[Westwind]

Just makes me realize how much the world needs my insightful nuggets lol!

 

[radness]

Hey @EdLovrich, don’t coach players. Ever.

If you coach my players, I get to coach you. You won’t like it.

Crown for the Mission Statement

 

[CoachJD]

The answer is still no. That goes beyond what an umpire is charged with doing. You seem intent on wanting the catcher to know that she is not "fooling" you with her attempts at framing. Let it go. Not your place.

I think I mostly agree with you, but I also get Ed's perspective.

I think where I stand is that the umpire should never initiate.

If the catcher questions the calls (not in a disrespectful way), nothing wrong with the umpire responding with "You're pulling balls back into the zone. Those aren't strikes." The umpire should not volunteer that information to help the catcher out.

 

[CoachJD]

there is a hole developing in front of the pitcher's plate AND the P's foot looks like it may be coming above the level of the ground, I am not convinced it is illegal, but it is definitely different than it was earlier in the game, in other words, the P is getting close, but I am unsure at this point if it is illegal, just different than it was when the game started. Or, a P is not pausing as long as she was earlier in the game and borderline to not 'simulating taking a sign' It isn't illegal yet, but if it gets any worse it will be called. (EDIT: In either case, it is not the motion she started the game with, but something that has changed during the course of the game, perhaps nerves, perhaps fatigue, perhaps a minor injury, perhaps just a lose of focus, I don't care and am not going to adress any of those things. The delivery is different than it was and if the change continues/worsens it will cross into illegal territory.)

Until she does something illegal, she's legal, so don't say anything. Once she's illegal, explain the reason for the call.

One reason to not say anything: You're going to get in her head with the warning/help. She's going to be thinking about what you said. Now you're having an outsized effect on the game. Wait until she actually breaks the rule, then address.

 

[EdLovrich]

If the catcher questions the calls (not in a disrespectful way), nothing wrong with the umpire responding with "You're pulling balls back into the zone. Those aren't strikes." The umpire should not volunteer that information to help the catcher out.

This is more along the lines of what I am talking about in the case of the interactions with the C. I don't believe I have ever, out of nowhere, said anything to a C about how she catches the ball during a game unless there has already been (polite) discussion about the location of previous pitches. Is this coaching the player? Am I telling her how to do her job? Should I have this discussion with the HC? If I DO go over to the dugout to talk with the HC, how might THAT conversation end?

 

[Rick M]

Until she does something illegal, she's legal, so don't say anything. Once she's illegal, explain the reason for the call.

One reason to not say anything: You're going to get in her head with the warning/help. She's going to be thinking about what you said. Now you're having an outsized effect on the game. Wait until she actually breaks the rule, then address.

I can honestly say I don’t think I’ve ever seen an illegal pitch called in TB that wasn’t preceded by the opposing coach complaining. It may come from sharp-eyed umpires in the college game, but everyone on the field knows what’s happening every time I’ve seen it called. In that context, I’ve seen umpires give a warning before making the call.

Is that coaching? How about calling “Ball, high” or even just holding a level hand above the catcher’s head. Isn’t the umpire, in effect, telling the pitcher where to throw the ball?

I just find this whole thread that posits the umpire should have no communication with the players to be baffling.


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[CoachJD]

I just find this whole thread that posits the umpire should have no communication with the players to be baffling.

Me too. And while we're not talking about pros here, it's a huge deviation from what we see in professional softball/baseball.

I'm glad Ed started this thread. It has value to figure out where some of these lines are and how now to cross them.

Only somewhat related, but at our HS game yesterday, there were two interactions between the home plate umpire and my catcher. Both only tangentially related to the topic.

On one, I heard him tell her "nice play" after she threw a runner out at first (I believe it was on a strike 3/ball in the dirt). It wasn't coaching, but I get the sense that some of the umpires here would disapprove of that kind of commentary. I have no problem with it. It was a nice play. I tell girls on the other team nice play all the time when they make one.

The other was hilarious. We played on a field with a backstop that was right behind home plate. It went plate, catcher, umpire with very little extra room. A ball in the dirt went to the backstop, right at the umpire's feet. Instead of going around him, my catcher just dove between his legs to get to the ball. We had a good laugh, but it was probably awkward for the umpire.

 

[Bullseye]

I think where I stand is that the umpire should never initiate.

If the catcher questions the calls (not in a disrespectful way), nothing wrong with the umpire responding with "You're pulling balls back into the zone. Those aren't strikes." The umpire should not volunteer that information to help the catcher out.

 

[YOCOACH]

If I DO go over to the dugout to talk with the HC, how might THAT conversation end?

Depends on the coach. I instruct and work with a lot of catchers in my area including those on my team. I would like to think that I would see a problem or issue at the same time and correct it before the HP ump approached me. But I'm not so self-absorbed to believe that I wouldn't miss it and would be appreciative of the imput.

 

[CoachJD]

This is more along the lines of what I am talking about in the case of the interactions with the C. I don't believe I have ever, out of nowhere, said anything to a C about how she catches the ball during a game unless there has already been (polite) discussion about the location of previous pitches. Is this coaching the player? Am I telling her how to do her job? Should I have this discussion with the HC? If I DO go over to the dugout to talk with the HC, how might THAT conversation end?

Coaching the player is instructing her on how to do better.

This is giving an explanation for your calls, which you're doing essentially upon request. Your response can help the player, but you're not telling her how to do something.

Different sport, but in football you will often see receivers check with the line judge to make sure they're lined up legally. The official will confirm. The LJ will never tell the receiver he's lined up illegally on his own. For me, that's where the line of acceptable official input should be drawn. I see nothing wrong with the person who is there to enforce the rules confirming that a player is following the rules when asked, but an official jumping in on his own crosses the line.

I also understand everybody's threshold for acceptable interaction is different.