What level are we?

[undergroundga]

I've been following another thread about too many teams. Instead of posting a comment about what level we should play at, I figured it best to start another thread.
We are an 02 team based in rural Southern Illinois and this is our 3rd year playing. We are a small independent team and I've always considered us as a C team and register as such.
We only have 1 legitimate starting pitcher(my dd who has also played on B teams and competed against A/B teams successfully) and several developmental pitchers.
Our catchers are middle of the road at best.
Any players we have added over the years have come straight from rec ball.
We hit the ball well, but not top to bottom.
Sometimes we look great on defense but can sometimes have that 1 inning that kills us.
We play mostly within 2 hours of home and I would rate the general competition level as C to mid B. We are a .500 team and have never won a tournament. But we play a lot of dbl headers/round robins against area teams and are prolly .750 against them. But we are improving steadily and increase our competition level every year.
I have heard others refer to us as being better than what I think we are. But I think part of that is because most teams think they are better than what they are. I consider us as C because of lack of pitching depth and holes in our lineup. But we do seem to beat other C teams in our area.
What do you think? I don't wanna build a reputation as a sandbagger and don't hesitate to put our team against B teams nor do I shy away from A teams.

 

[CoogansBluff]

We are a .500 team and have never won a tournament.

That's all you need to say. You're playing the right level.

 

[djcarter1966]

Sounds like you are about right .750 locally but .500 once you venture out a little.

Keep playing C level and challenge yourself with B level tourneys every now and then.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

That's all you need to say. You're playing the right level.

Not necessarily.

What is your record against C teams only?

What is your record against B teams?

What is your record against the A teams you don't shy away from?

Now, after you have those stats, break it down even further.

What is your record against the very best C teams? The very best B teams? The best A teams?

Take out the top three C teams you regularly play against. Now what is your record against the remaining C teams?

Folks I know in other states who have A, B and C level travel adhere to the 70/30 rule. If you are winning 70% of your games, you absolutely need to move up. If you are winning 30% of your games or less, you absolutely need to move down. Of course, both of these consider only games played against teams at your own level. For example, your C team my be 20-20 over the season so far, but perhaps you are 16-4 against other C teams. Also, you may never have won a tourney, but have you actually played in a tourney that was all C teams?

 

[quincy]

1 pitcher can throw it all out of whack. We have lost more games than I can count when I thought we had the better team but they had the better pitcher.

 

[Il softball fan]

Sounds like you are playing about the level you should be at. I would continue signing them up and playing in B level tournaments. If your team then improves enough that you are playing and winning on Sundays of B level tournaments, then you are too good to go back to C. If you are playing and not having success on Sundays of B level, then you are not sandbagging by going back to C tournaments.

 

[CoogansBluff]

For example, your C team my be 20-20 over the season so far, but perhaps you are 16-4 against other C teams. Also, you may never have won a tourney, but have you actually played in a tourney that was all C teams?

Fair points to consider. Although if you're 16-4 vs. C teams and still 20-20, that means you're 4-16 against B and A teams. That's not a good argument that you are B or A. He described the competition as C to mid-B, so I assumed he had not played many A teams.

On a slightly different note, if there is that much inter-level play among teams, such that C teams are playing A teams, or B teams are getting almost a random sampling of opponents, then I suggest that the tournament association get rid of strictly assigned levels, get a good computer model and just rank the teams 1-100, or however many teams there are. Don't have A, B and C divisions, but take the 20 teams that enter the tournament, look at your computer rankings, add some common sense and divide them into gold, silver, bronze in ways that are most practical. Then teams cannot sand-bag. You can start the season with an assigned level, but once you start playing games, a good computer model can sort it out.

Look at this example in North Carolina. Although the state didn't use these rankings for this purpose, this is an example of how computer rankings can assist if used by someone who understands them --

This Board Rocks - View Single Post - Update: Computer rankings of NC's travel teams (April 15)

 

[undergroundga]

9 times out of 10 we beat C teams in our area. If we lose it is generally because we shoot ourselves in the foot. We are prolly .850 against C teams we face. Some of those C teams consider themselves lower B teams, but I do not.
When we face tougher competition in pick up games and double headers it can go either ways with us picking up a few wins. Most of our loses have come to solid Bs but we are competitive.
It's the tournaments that we usually have trouble. We have a few 2nd place finishes but our lack of depth at pitcher is usually what hurts us, and overall inexperience.
We have never honestly played an A team, but I fear it would not end well. We shall see later this summer as some tourneys we have entered have A teams. One later in the year, we are the only C team registered.
My dd has played on some good B teams and I think that we have put together an off season program that is far better than any team she has been on. I expect us to be a legit B by end of summer but we do need to win something and beat some B teams before I can honestly think of us as B team.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

We are prolly .850 against C teams we face.

That's all you need to say. You're playing the wrong level.

If you believe you'll be at least .300 against B teams, then it's a no-brainer. Move up now.

You might even find out you can add another pitcher by being a more attractive team (B as opposed to C), as well.

 

[Top_Notch]

9 times out of 10 we beat C teams in our area. If we lose it is generally because we shoot ourselves in the foot. We are prolly .850 against C teams we face. Some of those C teams consider themselves lower B teams, but I do not.

I would say 'B' based on this.

I know classification is strange. I know of one program that fields their team as 'A' level yet they always get rolled against 'A' level talent. That makes them a 'B' team in my eyes, but they consider themselves an 'A' level team.