What is "Turning the Triangle"?

[mkral]

Tewks,

Keep doing what you are doing. It is helping some of us understand and some of our kids more then you can know!

Thanks
Mike

 

[Wellphyt]

well -

I like the flip the triangle cue. the flip feel in my opinion comes from swivel (forearm action) at GO which requires a suddeness and involves synched forearm rotation (both forearms twist) with triangle "flipping" and shoulder tilt. The focus on the action needs to be in the hands.

the GO/flip still needs to happen in sequence, prepared for by the synched external rotation of back arm and front leg and the internal rotation of the lead arm, this part being same as overhand throw (see Hodge info).

top hand wrist needs to get and stay firmly dorsiflexed when swivel starts.

another cue is hands slot the elbow, or slotting is the swing (do not slot then swing), etc.

Tom, I'm still trying to understand the swivel concept. I received some back channel info that has helped me to better understand it...at least I think it has. I'm still not 100% sure. Answering the following questions might help.

Would you agree or disagree that the flattneing of the palms (flipping the triangle) can begin a couple of frames before GO?

Do you agree or disagree that a hitter can begin to flatten their palms in a very controlled manner, and that two to three frames into the flattening motion the hitter can explode from this slower controlled running start when they make the decision to swing?

If so, is this giddy-up part of the swing where the swivel comes in to play?

Is the swivel taught as a way to get the palms flat?

Thanks

 

[tom.guerry]

the swing is VERY similar to throw the way Hodge describes it until GO.

you always have to go through the same arm action sequence to be in high level pattern, for back arm this is internal rotation/hip cock,abduction/hand cock, external rotation/rubberbandwinding.

the bat tips oppo for hip cock (Bonds is a good one to see good/full range of motion to see what happens), around toward the pitcher/still cocking for hand cock, then starts untipping with rubberbandwinding which is when the hands start getting flat, then at GO, the forearm twist takes the primary role in synching the swing which requires lots of resistance from acceleration of the already untipping/uncocking bat.

This upper body resistance is necessary for the lower body to work in sequence.

Where do girls learn how a lower body works this way dependent on upper resitance ?

2 places:

1- overhand throw and

2-windmill (arm circling backwards is a great resistor).

The trouble here is that girsl never learn a good overhand throw or they confuse the windmill arm action with overhand throw and get all fouled up.

So it is important to teach them all a good overhand throw and how it differs from windmill becasue the throwing arm action is SO similar to the high level swing pattern arm action.

swivel is just the name for the forearm twist aspect taking over at go (drop and tilt/synch with rear hip thrust) after palm started getting flat which is nto like the action for overhand underspin fastball.

 

[tom.guerry]

Well -

A couple of questions that keep coming up with regard to THT/rearward aceleration include how it can happen without barrel dumping or prematurely unhinging the lead wrist.

I like to think of these in the context of the universal sequence which is a combo of Williams/Epstein and science of the kinetic link with a dash of Lau/Slaught and even Nyman thrown in. the sequence is always the same in the MLB pattern:

-rhythmic preswing activity (Lau Sr absolute)
-cock hips (Williams)
-cock hands (Williams)
-windrubberband (Epstein)
-drop and tilt/weathervane (Epstein), hips accelerate to max turning velocity/turn faster than torso creating additional torso stretch/"sptial separation/"x-factor stretch"
-connection (slaught)/torque position(Epstein)/cusp(Nyman), upper torso accelerates to max turning velocity, hips decelerate
-handpath accelerates to max turning velocity, torso decelerates
-bathead accelerates to max turning velocity as lead wristr unhinges, handpath decelerates


The rearward acceleration of the bathead creates resistance to opening with the hips which ACCENTUATES rather than INTERRUPTS loading of the torso and provides a precise control mechanism for adjusting swing timing and direction (plane matching - Williams).

For this to work, INCREASING resistance and torso loading rather than interrupting/"rushing" the load/unload, the center of mass of the bat needs to stay INSIDE the arc of the handpath (in 3D) so there is no "casting" or "dumping" which would be measured as the kinetic link sequence getting out of order.

Next, notice the difference TEWKS shows between KNOB to BALL vs BARREL TO BALL. Many people have seen the superslomo of the kinetic link and as part of "live and independent hands", they want emphasis on conscious arm extension as the way to get the handopath acceleration part of the kinetic link both in sequence (hips-torso-hands-bathead).

Instead this is achieved by torquing the handle at GO (BARREL TO BALL, NOT KNOB TO BALL) which then fires the kinetic chain efficiently (as measured by effci9ent/expected speed gains from link to link) and in the right order). This is how the action works without prematurely unhinging the lead wrist becasue the chain is executed by in sequence firng of torso, then arms then bathead.

 

[TDS]

Also, I swing a bat almost every day. I played D1 and pro ball. A former MLB player I have known for over 10 years was at my facility last night. His words were, "You are doing something special" and encouraged me to play again. The ball has never come off my bat the way it does now. This is not an ego thing at all for me. This is about getting players (and sometimes parents and coaches!) to feel this. The sensation of effortless power. And I get kids who have to stop rounds of hitting because of laughter after they hit a ball.... Keep going!!!!!

Thats great news for you. Are You saying its do to the aggressive turning of the triangle /tht?

Somehow effortless power and aggressive turning the triangle don't seem to go together.

 

[Tewks]

Thats great news for you. Are You saying its do to the aggressive turning of the triangle /tht?

Somehow effortless power and aggressive turning the triangle don't seem to go together.

You didn't try it yet, did you.

You play golf? You ever kill a ball straight down the fairway and think to yourself, "How did I do that? Why can't I do that every time?"

 

[TDS]

You didn't try it yet, did you.

You play golf? You ever kill a ball straight down the fairway and think to yourself, "How did I do that? Why can't I do that every time?"

Ok, I get it. You don't want to answer the questions.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

I can see the triangle turn, but not flip, in this home run swing.

Can someone show me where the triangle flips?

How can flipping the triangle be so important if you don't see it in every swing?

 

[Tewks]

Ok, I get it. You don't want to answer the questions.

TDS, I've responded very directly to every reasonable question. I've asked you to try it. Please try it. I can't make you feel it by typing words.

 

[TDS]

TDS, I've responded very directly to every reasonable question. I've asked you to try it. Please try it. I can't make you feel it by typing words.

So the aggressive rotation of the triangle is not a reasonable question?

I have told You I have tried it accept its called "tht"

Creating a tight hand pivot point by the rear shoulder is huge. The drill Your doing describing flat hands avoiding the push I have been doing for years and use it all the time. This is why I use the queue hit with the back shoulder. This helps keep the hands back while maintaining a tight hpp.

IMO the aggressive triangle drill does not allow for a tight hpp.