Videos of my 10U DD taking cuts during batting practice, front toss from 20 feet,

[NoonTime]

Thanks NT, Is this similar to the one leg standing in the torque position drill?

Not sure which one you mean. One leg sounds like you are talking about a variant of the Stretch and Fire type drills. If that is the case then no these drill are not at all alike.

The Check swing drill has the hips already turned. It places the hips as the "top of the bottom". The "separation" is between the hips facing forward and the shoulder resisting back.

The SnF type drills have the rear leg pressing/pressured, inward/forward with the hips on up resisting rearward. It places the hips as the "bottom of the top". The "separation" is between the rear leg driving inward and the hips on up resiting rearward.

They are very different. Regardless of which methodology you eventually settle on, an understanding of the differences will do wonders for your ability to sift through all the info in these forums.

Cheers,
NoonTime

 

[Cowpoke]

Not sure which one you mean. One leg sounds like you are talking about a variant of the Stretch and Fire type drills. If that is the case then no these drill are not at all alike.

The Check swing drill has the hips already turned. It places the hips as the "top of the bottom". The "separation" is between the hips facing forward and the shoulder resisting back.

The SnF type drills have the rear leg pressing/pressured, inward/forward with the hips on up resisting rearward. It places the hips as the "bottom of the top". The "separation" is between the rear leg driving inward and the hips on up resiting rearward.

They are very different. Regardless of which methodology you eventually settle on, an understanding of the differences will do wonders for your ability to sift through all the info in these forums.

Cheers,
NoonTime

Got it, your right, make sense.
Thanks

 

[softballphreak]

SBP, so when you say this " Have her swing just like she is doing. When she finishes her swing, have her freeze at that point."
Do you mean JUST before contact with the ball?

Nope. When she finishes her swing, her hands/bat will be at her front shoulder (complete swing). Keep her hips where they are now. Everything in the lower half stays where it is—hips turned, front leg straight, rear leg bent at the knee. Bring the hands/bat back to the launch position (similar to post 3). Swing from there each time, without resetting the lower half.

Usually during this drill I'll often have to repeat "turn the hips more, hands back to launch," etc.

 

[softballphreak]

No... take a full swing like you normally do... not a drill swing... just a regular old swing. At the end of the normal swing, after your "follow through"....freeze there. Now leave the lower half where it is...i.e. hips facing pitcher, and take the upper ("bat and shoulders") back towards a normal starting spot. Now swing from there.

Sounds like and absolutely terrible drill to reenforce hip spin, waist separation, upper body push mechanics but to each their own

I'm not looking for hip spin with this drill (I hate the cue "hip spin", anyway). I do want them to feel the separation of the lower half and top half. And I don't like the idea of push mechanics as a cue.

The main reason I use this drill is to give them the feel of leading with the lower half. Surprisingly, to me, they have enough power from this position to hit it to the fence. HS age. We actually did this drill in a conference game this year in an attempt to keep from running up the score. One player who had been popping up pretty bad hit the 200' fence. Then she complained that if I had let her hit regular it would have been over. Different analysis than mine, of course.

The drill has been very effective for getting them to lead with the hips. Even if that wasn't so, it's a great core conditioning drill.

 

[jbooth]

No... take a full swing like you normally do... not a drill swing... just a regular old swing. At the end of the normal swing, after your "follow through"....freeze there. Now leave the lower half where it is...i.e. hips facing pitcher, and take the upper ("bat and shoulders") back towards a normal starting spot. Now swing from there.

Sounds like and absolutely terrible drill to reenforce hip spin, waist separation, upper body push mechanics but to each their own

You're describing Epstein's "Torque Drill". I thought you didn't like Epstein?

 

[jbooth]

I'm not looking for hip spin with this drill (I hate the cue "hip spin", anyway). I do want them to feel the separation of the lower half and top half. And I don't like the idea of push mechanics as a cue.

The main reason I use this drill is to give them the feel of leading with the lower half. Surprisingly, to me, they have enough power from this position to hit it to the fence. HS age. We actually did this drill in a conference game this year in an attempt to keep from running up the score. One player who had been popping up pretty bad hit the 200' fence. Then she complained that if I had let her hit regular it would have been over. Different analysis than mine, of course.

The drill has been very effective for getting them to lead with the hips. Even if that wasn't so, it's a great core conditioning drill.

That's Epstein's "Torque Drill". You just gave it your own name. That's exactly the purpose of the Torque Drill. To understand that your hips must turn first. You must windup (torque) in the middle.

It shows how much the obliques are involved, and how rotation of the torso is the main power source. You then combine the turning of the hips, while you hold the shoulders back (Epstein's Numbers Drill) to get the top and bottom working together properly, and then add in the barrel throw, which Epstein does not teach, and you have the fundamentals of an MLB swing. Hips, Handle, Head. (Bat head/barrel).

The hips turn, the shoulders turn and the hands throw the barrel.

 

[softballphreak]

That's Epstein's "Torque Drill". You just gave it your own name. That's exactly the purpose of the Torque Drill. To understand that your hips must turn first. You must windup (torque) in the middle.

It shows how much the obliques are involved, and how rotation of the torso is the main power source. You then combine the turning of the hips, while you hold the shoulders back (Epstein's Numbers Drill) to get the top and bottom working together properly, and then add in the barrel throw, which Epstein does not teach, and you have the fundamentals of an MLB swing. Hips, Handle, Head. (Bat head/barrel).

The hips turn, the shoulders turn and the hands throw the barrel.

I used this drill ages ago. I used to call it the No. 2 drill because it was my second drill. The girls called it no. 2 for a different reason.

I used the word torquing this year trying to describe the feeling of throwing the barrel and the girls went crazy with giggles. They thought I was trying to say twerking. And twerking is something I wouldn't have been allowed to discuss in HS. I didn't know that word at the time.

The way I understand Epstein's Torque Drill is the bat start from resting on the deltoids. I want the bat in regular launch position.

 

[NoonTime]

You're describing Epstein's "Torque Drill".

If you were following along you would have read that I was responding to Cowpoke who was not quite following softballphreak's "check swing drill" description. I think he's all set now though.

I thought you didn't like Epstein?

Never met the guy.

 

[jbooth]

If you were following along you would have read that I was responding to Cowpoke who was not quite following softballphreak's "check swing drill" description. I think he's all set now though.

Never met the guy.

I read the response. I was just pointing out that that drill is the same as Epstein's. I think it's a good drill.

 

[jbooth]

I used this drill ages ago. I used to call it the No. 2 drill because it was my second drill. The girls called it no. 2 for a different reason.

I used the word torquing this year trying to describe the feeling of throwing the barrel and the girls went crazy with giggles. They thought I was trying to say twerking. And twerking is something I wouldn't have been allowed to discuss in HS. I didn't know that word at the time.

The way I understand Epstein's Torque Drill is the bat start from resting on the deltoids. I want the bat in regular launch position.

Epstein puts the bat on the deltoid so that the drill also encourages keeping the hands back and not disconnecting. Doing it your way is fine. I use it both ways. But, putting the bat on the shoulder helps them learn to keep the arms out of the swing. Just turn and use the hands, and use the hands early, not late after pulling them from the shoulder.

Epstein didn't invent the concept, he just gave it a name. Former MLB player, Max Venable told me back in 1997 to have kids learn by getting the lower half set as in this drill.

IMO, until they learn the proper lower half position at contact (front leg straight, back leg bent, hips turned) not much else matters.