Got to applaud Bobbyb for being open to criticism. It is so difficult to take personal criticism, let alone someone criticizing your DD. Well done!
My 15 yo DD ...wanting to improve this off season.
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I didn't think she was doing that unless i am misunderstanding something...she has released the ball with weight on front foot prior to popping up.
I have a question about her right shoulder. My DD looks likes this every now and then when she pitches. I don't think its a good position. IMO her arm has to go around her hip becasue she is closinga bit early. From the other videos posted on this link the right shoulder looks to be behind the left and lower as well. It seems to me if the OP's DD would stay open longer she would pick up speed just from that. Could someone tell me if I'm way off base on what i'm seeing???
- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,798
- 63
Not off base.........She cannot contract the spread..........Pitching is more reliant on linear contraction into the powerline then rotational momentum of the hips and torso........Rotational energy in pitching is more limited to I/R of the arm and shoulder during linear contraction into the powerline..........Although there is some opening and slight closing of the hips/shoulders......It isn't the main powersource of the whip.........
Unlike hitting which relies heavily on rotation energy to deliver the payload (barrel).........
So what happens when a hitter blocks/stalls linear energy?........It is converted to rotational energy to deliver the payload..........Which is GOOD in hitting.........
So because she can't contract the spread........Her linear energy is blocked/stalled........And just like in hitting.........It converts to rotational energy to deliver the payload.........Which works great in hitting......But manifests itself into what you describe here.........Early closing of the hip/shoulders......Which is bad in pitching..........
So the problem is her spread/stride length.........Causing linear contraction to block/stall and convert to rotational energy to deliver the payload.........
I think Bob now has a clear understanding of the importance of linear contraction into the powerline.......And is well on his way to fixing the issues being addressed here........
- Jul 26, 2010
- 3,554
- 0
One way to overcome this is to ask here to take a forward step with the back leg past the front or "walk out of the pitch" smoothly......AFTER RELEASE.......AS A DRILL of course...............You'll see what I mean by "stuck"..........As soon as she's "unstuck"..........She'll be able to take a nice balanced forward step...........
Take a look at these thighs during contraction....."Into" the front leg.........She throws upwards of 65mph........This young lady can walk out of her pitch with no problem........And infact does so in a drill as "transfer" training..........
Be REALLY careful about this drill. Rub your thumb and finger together enough times and you will get a blister. Keep hitting yourself in the back of the leg over and over doing this drill and you will be in a knee brace by 19. The drill has a ton of merit, but the contact is not necessary.
-W
- Nov 29, 2009
- 2,975
- 83
I really wouldn't call it criticism. He's getting constructive advice without judgment. The good part is he knows how much doesn't know and is looking for help.
Tomzpc/Sluggers: Thank you
Screwball: TY…when I think about “throw it harder”…I think along the lines of what Mrek referred to…going for velocity...which means to me… arm speed… all out over technique.
Starsnuffer: I will keep that in mind, ty.
To the pm message about how we transitioned to leaping. I can only give my view of what we did last off season. Unfortunately…you may be disappointed.
I wish I could say it was my coaching , great fathering abilities and a great formula, but alas… that would be a crock.
I can tell you I was nervous about her changing to leaping…wondering if it would mess her up if she couldn’t do it. I was really wishing I had a good pitching coach. But I also felt… she should be able to go back to stepping… so we just went for it. I was ready to go back to step pitching if she wasn’t getting it by Christmas.
She picked it up faster than I thought she would. It ended up being a three week process for us…so it was before Thanksgiving that we went to normal pitching practices.
The first week….she watched some clips I had of leaping pitchers that I had video’d… to get an ideal of what to imitate. The videos had given me some focus points.
Our first focus was… push off forward rather than up…keeping her head on a level plane.
She gets frustrated if I keep changing the focus or if I keep going to something else and I don’t blame her…so we don’t change focus until its accomplished…whether that’s 5 minutes, 15 minutes, a day, week or more. After that we focused on dragging the toe …rather than having the sole of foot towards the ground.
We just did our normal warm up routine and practiced nothing but leaping/pushing off …without a ball for most of the first week.
I didn’t tell her what to do other than push off forward…keeping head on a level plane.
We tried a few different push off styles on the first day…staying more upright, rocking back more, even squatting further ect…until she told me what felt good to her …and I could tell it looked good at the push off position (the actual point of pushing off, not the style stuff).
I would stand to the side paying attention to push off, level head, open k etc…each time it looked good…I would say so…until she liked what she felt and I liked what I saw. When she was tired…I tried it, she would watch and correct me…and laugh alot.
She would only occasionally crow hop at first pushing up more than out and throwing her timing off .
By the end of the second day she was getting it and being pretty rhythmic about it. We took a healing day as her thigh was a little sore after day two and my body was sore.
The next practice day…she had it down better and we were ready to move on…so we added a wiffle ball the last day of that week. That didn’t throw her off in any way… so we used a real ball without throwing that final practice of the week.
The next week… we did our normal warmup routines and some leap warm ups with ball…without throwing…then we went to throwing.
The ball went every where… but mostly very high for the first couple of days… so we concentrated on the release point for all of the next week. She was very concern for a few days…because she could seldom throw a strike let alone hit a spot. After a couple of days of no balls over the plate from someone that’s strength was spots…I was a little concerned myself.
Each day that week…we warmed up by leaping with a ball…without throwing… till it felt and looked right… then focused on release point… and by the end of the week she had better control.
The third week…I hate to even say what our focus was. It was release point mostly… then we moved on to closing the hips (yep at the time it was still “close them hips girl”) and then “follow through with that arm up”! I know…yikes!
I am pretty sure she is thrilled she doesn’t have to listen to all that now.
After that week we moved on to normal practices. That was pretty much it.
The fact that she was able to transition to leap…in the period of time she did…is more of a testament of her than what I did. Thinking back…I do think it was easier for her… because her stepping mechanics were such that she kept her head on a level plane… and that was a influence of learning Rhythm & Balance. One of the best exercise imo… we learned back then when she was little… was to place a book on her head… as she walked through the stepping pitching motion staying balanced through the pitch with some rhythm.
So going into leaping… she already had the “feel”…. of moving the body around …while keeping the head on a level plane. I think that was important…I also think we caught the strengthening of the hips at a good time, as she gained some hips and strength around then.
The pitching coaches that teach kids in this forum…can fill in you in more than I …about transitioning to leaping…maybe they can give some input.
Thank you all for your input and encouragement. I have our plan for off season now ….and more confidence that we will hit our goal. I will do a follow up sometime this winter with where we are at good or bad.
Screwball: TY…when I think about “throw it harder”…I think along the lines of what Mrek referred to…going for velocity...which means to me… arm speed… all out over technique.
Starsnuffer: I will keep that in mind, ty.
To the pm message about how we transitioned to leaping. I can only give my view of what we did last off season. Unfortunately…you may be disappointed.
I wish I could say it was my coaching , great fathering abilities and a great formula, but alas… that would be a crock.
I can tell you I was nervous about her changing to leaping…wondering if it would mess her up if she couldn’t do it. I was really wishing I had a good pitching coach. But I also felt… she should be able to go back to stepping… so we just went for it. I was ready to go back to step pitching if she wasn’t getting it by Christmas.
She picked it up faster than I thought she would. It ended up being a three week process for us…so it was before Thanksgiving that we went to normal pitching practices.
The first week….she watched some clips I had of leaping pitchers that I had video’d… to get an ideal of what to imitate. The videos had given me some focus points.
Our first focus was… push off forward rather than up…keeping her head on a level plane.
She gets frustrated if I keep changing the focus or if I keep going to something else and I don’t blame her…so we don’t change focus until its accomplished…whether that’s 5 minutes, 15 minutes, a day, week or more. After that we focused on dragging the toe …rather than having the sole of foot towards the ground.
We just did our normal warm up routine and practiced nothing but leaping/pushing off …without a ball for most of the first week.
I didn’t tell her what to do other than push off forward…keeping head on a level plane.
We tried a few different push off styles on the first day…staying more upright, rocking back more, even squatting further ect…until she told me what felt good to her …and I could tell it looked good at the push off position (the actual point of pushing off, not the style stuff).
I would stand to the side paying attention to push off, level head, open k etc…each time it looked good…I would say so…until she liked what she felt and I liked what I saw. When she was tired…I tried it, she would watch and correct me…and laugh alot.
She would only occasionally crow hop at first pushing up more than out and throwing her timing off .
By the end of the second day she was getting it and being pretty rhythmic about it. We took a healing day as her thigh was a little sore after day two and my body was sore.
The next practice day…she had it down better and we were ready to move on…so we added a wiffle ball the last day of that week. That didn’t throw her off in any way… so we used a real ball without throwing that final practice of the week.
The next week… we did our normal warmup routines and some leap warm ups with ball…without throwing…then we went to throwing.
The ball went every where… but mostly very high for the first couple of days… so we concentrated on the release point for all of the next week. She was very concern for a few days…because she could seldom throw a strike let alone hit a spot. After a couple of days of no balls over the plate from someone that’s strength was spots…I was a little concerned myself.
Each day that week…we warmed up by leaping with a ball…without throwing… till it felt and looked right… then focused on release point… and by the end of the week she had better control.
The third week…I hate to even say what our focus was
. It was release point mostly… then we moved on to closing the hips (yep at the time it was still “close them hips girl”) and then “follow through with that arm up”! I know…yikes!I am pretty sure she is thrilled she doesn’t have to listen to all that now.
After that week we moved on to normal practices. That was pretty much it.
The fact that she was able to transition to leap…in the period of time she did…is more of a testament of her than what I did. Thinking back…I do think it was easier for her… because her stepping mechanics were such that she kept her head on a level plane… and that was a influence of learning Rhythm & Balance. One of the best exercise imo… we learned back then when she was little… was to place a book on her head… as she walked through the stepping pitching motion staying balanced through the pitch with some rhythm.
So going into leaping… she already had the “feel”…. of moving the body around …while keeping the head on a level plane. I think that was important…I also think we caught the strengthening of the hips at a good time, as she gained some hips and strength around then.
The pitching coaches that teach kids in this forum…can fill in you in more than I …about transitioning to leaping…maybe they can give some input.
Thank you all for your input and encouragement. I have our plan for off season now ….and more confidence that we will hit our goal. I will do a follow up sometime this winter with where we are at good or bad.
- May 21, 2010
- 6
- 0
Very informative thread
Boardmember/Slugger- What was the software program you used to draw on the video clips?
BobbyB- What was your video equipment and editing software
Boardmember- You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about pitching mechanics, are you pitching coaches or a just good study when your DD's was being taught? If it is the former do either of you live in SoCal, if the latter do you have anyone to recommend in the area?
DD is a thrower (I like to call her a hurrler), velocity before command. Working on command now but she would benefit greatly from a coach who breaks down the mechanics like both of you and slugger have done.
Regardless of the possible coach recommendation please answer about the video equipment & editing software because I would like to post clips and get a breakdown such as boobyb's DD did here. I'd rather my DD have brusied ego then a neck injury from watching one of her pitches get cranked over the fence
Boardmember/Slugger- What was the software program you used to draw on the video clips?
BobbyB- What was your video equipment and editing software
Boardmember- You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about pitching mechanics, are you pitching coaches or a just good study when your DD's was being taught? If it is the former do either of you live in SoCal, if the latter do you have anyone to recommend in the area?
DD is a thrower (I like to call her a hurrler), velocity before command. Working on command now but she would benefit greatly from a coach who breaks down the mechanics like both of you and slugger have done.
Regardless of the possible coach recommendation please answer about the video equipment & editing software because I would like to post clips and get a breakdown such as boobyb's DD did here. I'd rather my DD have brusied ego then a neck injury from watching one of her pitches get cranked over the fence
Hurler's Dad: IMHO, Boardmember is the guy for you. He is located in SoCal. He has an extremely good understanding of pitching mechanics, and he is able to teach. He has taught me several few things, and anyone that can get anything through my thick skull has to be a pretty good teacher.
As one Daddy to another--you have to find a good pitching coach for your DD. You could spend months floundering around trying to find a good PC, but you aren't going to find a better one than Boardmember.
As one Daddy to another--you have to find a good pitching coach for your DD. You could spend months floundering around trying to find a good PC, but you aren't going to find a better one than Boardmember.
Where in SoCal is Boardmember teaching??
I would love to get a consultation with my 16yo. PM me if interested.
I would love to get a consultation with my 16yo. PM me if interested.
