My 15 yo DD ...wanting to improve this off season.

[bobbyb]

Ok…We are taking a few weeks off before we began training for next season. I know there is not a lot of posting of dd’s pitching and I can see why cause it’s a little nerve racking to post her…must be a human trait thing but…. since she is in public while pitching…lets throw it out there…so we can make progress this off season.

We don’t have a pitching coach and I would like input. While there are a few things we have goals on this off season, one is I would like to pick up 5 mph this off season and work IR now. I know the increases from here can be small things and 1 or 2 mph at a time. I see a couple on this video and I have part of a plan but would like input as to what you would do with her and any recommendations on improving pitching technique or getting there.

A little history. She has never really been a barn burner pitcher but was exceptional compared to most rec leaque pitchers around her age. Her fastest pitch now is low 50’s. She has been very accurate as she was always taught to through low outside corner as the primary pitch. She can hit 4 corners and a high (out of zone) ball pretty consistently when on. Does slow down when zones shrink or when we are working on something specific or struggling with technique whether mental or physical.

She has a good useable drop ball and change up…..her curve/curve drop was usable before hs ball … I try to stay out of coaching her during the time she has a coach until she ask’s me. I did have to step in and talk to her hs pitching coach about what she was doing near the end of the season as breaking balls stopped working and fastballs were all between the waist and letters. Their corrections were making it worse and physically they were hurting my dd. They would not listen to her so I stepped in and talked with her coaches.

She is now 15 (95) and we are moving up to 18 b. Has been pitching since 11 (summer league) although we never took pitching seriously till the end of her 12 yr summer season when she broke her nose in warm-ups and wanted to still play and made all stars that summer. Kind of woke me up to how serious it was for her. When she was 13 the local TB team was moving to 16u and our older girls asked her to pitch for them against that team cause their pitcher was going to be gone. She did and she beat them, then was asked to play for them.

So the last two seasons, she played 16 b TB. 3rd pitcher, outfield and some second. They kept a good rotation and she did pitch every 3rd game. She became #2 after #1 was injured and quit this past season and pitched every other game. She was closing in on #1 till hs ball.

As far as pitching coaches: The first year the TB team had a pitching coach. Their pitching coach’s technique was different than anything I had seen and was messing my DD up and when we talked about it, what she was teaching wasn’t useful imo, so I asked them not to teach that ( a low squat at k position) to my dd. I had tried to get the best pitching coach in our area…I know he was the best cause he told me he was. But he wouldn’t work with my DD cause she didn’t have enough fire in her belly or some bs. HS coach was a college player in her time, she is a hip closing, wave the hand thrower.

We have gone to a good clinic before but since I had no luck with pitching coaches I gave it up and did/doing it myself.

Learning pitching: Basically this is what we did.
1. Cheryl Kemp book and every article I could read on the internet about fast pitching.
2. George Jones Rhythm and Balance Videos. (never hear of him on forum, but I like his stuff for little kids)
3. Ernie Parker series.
4. I video’d who I thought were the good pitchers last year while she was pitching with TB team and her freshman season. Came up with what I thought was useful and not… and made a plan. She didn’t play basketball last off season cause she wanted to make more progress. That gave us time for major change so we went from step style to leap style. And began working on breaking balls.
5. Fast forward…once this past season started I was looking for next steps and ran across this forum. Wish I had of found it before last off season but didn’t. I went through all the IR and pitching post (still do). I couldn’t change her style dramatically in season but I did start incorporating 3 o’clock throws with ball to sky without any explanation to her during warm ups….and I stopped telling her to close her hip and stopped telling her to follow through with arm up wave motion.
6. After reading the forum we also ordered Hillhouse video. I like it and wish I had of found them before last off season too.

With me not always saying…close hips…follow through with bicep move and all… she was automatically moving to a more natural throwing motion like IR and hillhouse.
Just so I am clear we haven’t started IR work yet, my point is she was migrating towards that style without being taught, which i found interesting.

So this is where we ended up this year. This is after more than 2 months of HS ball and we were working on corrections for one week. In this video she is concentrating on getting back on the power line and still hitting the outside corner. Not her fastest throwing but first things first and that’s correcting hs ball stuff.

What you would do to improve her speed, pitching technique or how you would go about getting her to that next level etc…. If we can get to that 57-58 mph area this off season, she will take the #1 spot. That’s one of her goals. I am ready for the good, bad, the ugly…so go for it! Hope this pic stuff works.

 

[Mrek]

While mechanics can always be tweaked, it looks like she already has a reasonably decent motion. Not too far forward, stiff front leg, good stride. I'd have to say, if she is topping out in the low 50's, in order for her to throw it harder she is going to have to "throw it harder". Perhaps this is what that PC you referred to meant. My DD does not have half the mechanics of yours yet has topped out in the upper 50's since 13-14 (she is 16 now, we are trying to move to the 62-63 MPH zone but seem to stuck around 60). Her PC was always about velocity and still is with command coming through refinement of mechanics and repetition (Granted, her lack of command has cost her game time early on, but over the last year or so she has been putting it together). There have been several threads recently regarding the command versus speed debate (...which should come first). But generally, girls who throw hard have been taught to throw as hard as possible from early on. It's difficult to retool a soft-tosser to throw hard without taking a step backward in terms of command.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I like this girl. I can see the George Jones effects there.

Just a few general thoughts. She could get a longer lever on her right hand by getting her shoulder down, instead of level. I can't really tell, without standing there, but she may be "digging a trench" with her right foot. That will slow her down. I know it is splitting hairs between too much drag and leaping, but it is just a thought.

Also, are you catching her? If so, get some equipment on and I would suggest sitting on a low stool. Then, tell her to fire away. She may be subconciously trying not to hurt you.

Very good job with her and the pictures.

 

[bobbyb]

Mrek... i agree that at some point you have to just "throw harder". Not sure where i stand on the debate of what to do when..or which comes first. I have read that thread and had that discussion with other pitching dads before.

I have seen girl’s softball loose many players at an early age because of lack of control of hard throwing pitchers. Even my own dd got beat up bad last year with very fast pitchers with lack of control that hit her right in the side of the knee while batting, twice....a month apart, it was ugly, it hurt, it caused us healing time...it was unnecessary imo. And i know there are those that go for velocity that don't hit many hitters too so don't take that as a negative about that route…I am just saying I don’t know where I stand on it. Me and my dd… is what we is … and are where we are at!

I do think the 43 foot pitching has helped that though, batters can react better now.

I also do believe the PC’s remark was probably about that but i still didn't get it. In kidding i told her maybe she should start grunting!

To be stuck at 60 mph at 16 is a very good problem to have! Congrats to your DD.! That doesn’t happen often, all through this past season at 16u..b and a…it was rare for us to come across a 60 + mph pitchers. Hope she gets to her next goal!

Amy…TY…should of known a Illinois transplant would of heard of George! You may be the only person in AZ that knows of him.

That dirt is pretty soft…they just laid lime down again and had it broke up pretty good.
I have found with leaping this way…you do have to split hairs. Like to increase arm speed even a little…she has to slightly shorten leap, speed up her leap or flatten out the leap to keep her timing. I really pay attention to when her weight goes on her front foot...where her arm is about 1-2 oclock. So I think splitting hairs is a necessary thang.

The shoulder drop is a good idea. How about working on a screw ball to get the feel of dropping that shoulder a little. Good idea? Or better suggestion to get the feel?

Yep, thats me...And I do have a stool…it wasn’t in my truck though. I think I will do the gear thing especially indoors this off season.

 

[mrslug01]

Her motion does look pretty good. My DD is 14, 15 in February. Tops out at 56. mid 50's consistently. In each practice, we bring the gun out and just work on throwing hard. When we can do long toss, we do that too but don't have a place over the winter to do it. On one of the hitting sites, one thing the mention is the "intent" to hit the ball hard. I think the same can be said for throwing. In order for my DD to throw hard, she needs to start her motion fast and throw with the intent of throwing hard. We also always check her arm speed (how fast she throws without using the legs). That's a good way to check development.

 

[redhawkridge]

Go to the discussions of the Internal Rotation delivery. Get her to relax the pitching arm and develop the whippy action that the IR mechanics provide. This will change her tendency to pull her shoulder forward with a stiff pitching arm. She has lots of positive energy contributing to the speed from her body action, but she is under-utilizing the windmill and the IR. She could benefit from drills that isolate her windmill/arm action, such as the kneeling drill.
jim

 

[sluggers]

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but your DD's motion is not so good. Your DD's motion is messed up. There are at least three flaws.

(1) The biggest flaw is that she "hops backward" prior to release. You'll notice that when her left foot lands, she pushes backward with her left foot, and then releases the ball.

Pitching is about "transfer of linear momentum". The idea is that you get the body moving as fast as possible toward the glove, and then you abruptly stop the body. The release is timed so as maximize the transfer of the linear momentum of the entire body into the ball. Think of a brick on the dashboard of a car that slams into a brick wall.

What your DD is doing is using her left leg to absorb the entire linear momentum of her body. Look specifically at her left leg at release. She has ZERO weight on her left leg at release. So, effectively, your DD is throwing completely with her arm.

Basically, a girl can throw around 50 MPH or so just with her arm--and your DD's arm motion is decent. But, the other MPHs for a pitcher come from her body, and she is getting NOTHING from her push off, because her left leg is absorbing all the energy.

Don't take my word for it...we have videos of Cat Osterman, Jenny Finch and a bunch of other ladies throwing a softball. None of them hop backwards prior to release.

If you want to prove this, have her get fully open and just throw the ball without every closing her hips.

(2) She is closing her hips before release of the ball. Attached is a shot of Osterman *AFTER* release. You can see that the ball is out of Osterman's hand, and you can see that her hips have only closed to about 45 degrees. On the other hand, look at your DD at 6... her hips are fully closed. She pulls the ball with her hips. She is losing speed.

(3) Take a look at the ball at 9, 12, and 6 in relation to her body. Notice that at 9, the ball is to the left of her head; at 12, above her head; and at 6 next to her right hip. So the plane of her circle (the circle being the path her arm takes during the pitch) is tilted about 20 degrees. The plane is supposed to be straight up and down.

 

[bobbyb]

mrslug01...ty..that is an excellent idea. We have never practiced with guns and having her set "intent" with feedback is a great idea. I am going to do this.

redhawkeridge..thats one of the things i see too especially the whipping of the elbow. Its almost like she starts rotating the upper arm a little early...stiffing arm up...will be working on that too.

Sluggers...one of the other things i noticed is what you said on the hips...closing a little early compared to great ones. I think correcting that will help the path of the ball also. I will have to slow down the video on the release of ball after popping up. I believe the ball is release before she pops up and takes weight off the front foot but i will check it out thoroughly.

Thank you all...keep it coming!

 

[BoardMember]

There is a lot to like......and a lot to dislike in your DD's mechanics.............

I'll tell you right now this has to go..........Its the most spine twisting, slop introducing, time consuming, unrecoverable waist of energy I've seen in a long time..........From a kid with fairly decent mechanics............

Oh wait........Just want to make sure..........You did say you were ready for it right?............Before I continue.........

When you're ready, we'll discuss the positions I've maked here..........And how this is affecting her ability to generate velocity in the whipping motion.............

 

[bobbyb]

I am ready! Go for it. I am with you on the wasted energy already...go for it from there.