Unsportsmanlike spectrum: you decide

[_MIA_]

that reply appears you are being sensible today

Thanks...I think.

 

[radness]

That other thread has really run its course (hahahah - see what I did there?), but starting another to tease out the spectrum of unsporting behavior...

NFHS, ART. 13 . . . Unsporting acts shall not be committed, including, but not limited to: a. use of words or actions to incite or try to incite spectators to demonstrate. b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, baiting or taunting; or; c. behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Choose:

a) Legitimate trickery
b) Deceitful tactic
c) Behavior not in spirit of fair play
d) Deceitful / bad spirited, but minor

1. Fake Throw – fielder pretends to throw to get runner to advance or leave base (could be a ground ball to F5 with R3, or could be backpick to F3 who pretends to throw back to F1)

2. Fake Overthrow – fielders pretend throw goes into outfield to get runner to advance

3. Fake Catch – two outfielders converge on a fly ball, one of them pretends to catch ball early to get runner to advance

4. Not delivering a pitch to cause runner to leave early

5. BR runs to 1b on uncaught third strike while 1b is occupied

6. BR runs to 1b on ball 3

7. Intentionally missing base to gain advantage (lol, I think we know everyone’s stance on this by now)

8. Coach calls out the wrong number of outs

9. Runner intentionally leaves base way before catch in attempt to score

10. Team bats out of order because Teagan is 0 for 31, defense doesn’t notice

11. R1 deliberately falls down b/w 1st and 2nd to draw throw/tag so R3 can score

12. Fake bunt / slash

13. Changeup…(I kid, I kid)

@Greatposttowildcat
(see what i did there...)

My thought to add is
How many of these un-sporting acts issues are only a warning the first time in a game versus an immediate repercussion on first time offense?!

 

[tim_s]

I'll play



a) Legitimate trickery
b) Deceitful tactic
c) Behavior not in spirit of fair play
d) Deceitful / bad spirited, but minor

1. Fake Throw – fielder pretends to throw to get runner to advance or leave base (could be a ground ball to F5 with R3, or could be backpick to F3 who pretends to throw back to F1). -- (A) all day

2. Fake Overthrow – fielders pretend throw goes into outfield to get runner to advance. (A), but for me is a little much......not something I teach, not something I like...so a little (D) for me

3. Fake Catch – two outfielders converge on a fly ball, one of them pretends to catch ball early to get runner to advance -- (B) & (C) - this is bush

4. Not delivering a pitch to cause runner to leave early. (B) -- same as above, and are there rules in some subsets? and (C)

5. BR runs to 1b on uncaught third strike while 1b is occupied -- this one just happens at lower levels without any intent....while the D needs to be aware, there are also rules in place on this one........the Batter never becomes Batter Runner, and has no legal right to be on the basepaths, so if it is intentional, I'm with (B) and also rules violation (at least in some sets)

6. BR runs to 1b on ball 3 - again, if it is intentional then (B), if it is coached behavior, then (C)

7. Intentionally missing base to gain advantage (lol, I think we know everyone’s stance on this by now) (C) all day if it is coached

8. Coach calls out the wrong number of outs -- assuming intent/purpose, 100% (C) & (B)

9. Runner intentionally leaves base way before catch in attempt to score -- bad baserunning, (B), should be caught

10. Team bats out of order because Teagan is 0 for 31, defense doesn’t notice -- again, (C)

11. R1 deliberately falls down b/w 1st and 2nd to draw throw/tag so R3 can score -- (A) with a little (C)/(D) - not a ton different then walking to 2nd on a 1st/3rd, just another area I wouldn't delve into

12. Fake bunt / slash -- (A)



I'm a coach who has had his team play an extra inning because I refused to stall in a time limit game; I hate it, I just want to play softball and let the chips fall......so all of this extra nonsense just to get over on the other team just kind of blows my mind.......square up, trade punches, see what happens.......if you need to take a little padding out of your gloves, to keep with the metaphor, then perhaps you shouldn't be fighting, or you miss the actual beauty of the fight, and care only about the outcome

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I am inclined to agree and far be it from me to put limits on anyone. Just figured folks had such strong opinions in the other one it would be fun to test how far this concept would go and apply to other situations.

Fair enough. I don't consider any of those to be 'Unsporting acts' as it's either a part of the game or there are rules to address those situations if needed.

I think of bat rolling, lying about your age, switching balls during the game, team hopping when rostered, etc. as unsporting acts that violate the spirit of fair play (and I have seen all of the above).

 

[CoachJD]

Fair enough. I don't consider any of those to be 'Unsporting acts' as it's either a part of the game or there are rules to address those situations if needed.

I think of bat rolling, lying about your age, switching balls during the game, team hopping when rostered, etc. as unsporting acts that violate the spirit of fair play (and I have seen all of the above).

Agree with you generally on this.

Two caveats.

1) Age matters. Doing some of this stuff at 8u would annoy me because it's 8u and your focus should be on teaching kids how to play and not trying to outsmart third graders to win a game. I think HS/HS age is a fair cutoff for most of these examples. Below the HS level, things get murky for me.

2) Number of umpires matters. There are "tricks" you can use to take advantage of a single umpire, and while there are rules to address those things, I'm not sure they're fair game. I know of a local coach who will tell runners on first to leave a step early at first because the PU can't see that. I'm not sure of how a single umpire handles a catch/tag up, but I'd bet there are times where he can't do both. Telling your runner to leave early in that situation? Don't like it. But do it with a full complement of umps? Fine. Try your tricks. Because you can get caught and there's recourse.

With most of the OP's examples, if a team did this to my team, I would find myself angry with my players. #4 would bother me, but that's an illegal pitch, so I have rule book backup to argue that. #7 is only a problem if you're doing it behind a single umpire's back. #9 I just addressed.

Don't know if I've told this story here. When I was a teenager, I was playing short. A good friend was on second. Mutual friends were playing 2B and pitcher. Our friend/opponent had recently gotten a new bat, so as he takes his leadoff, he starts telling me about it. So I make quick eye contact with the 2B and P, then I engage him in the conversation. I'm asking him questions about the bat. He's distracted, we pick him off easily. I did that to a friend. And I don't feel bad about it. We still laugh about it. But I think some here would think I displayed poor sportsmanship to take advantage of our friendship like that.

 

[Agcy]

Faking, hmmm, so if the ball goes into the Fielder's glove and it falls out, and fielder may or may not know it has fallen out,
while still proceeding to put down the tag. I guess in that situation the Umpire would have to apply a judgment of intent or not?!
To Fake ot Not to Fake...
That is question...


that reply appears you are being sensible today

I've always assumed the 'fake tag' is when the ball is not in the area of the play IE an intentional act to force the runner to slide when not necessary to keep the runner from advancing to the next base. If the ball is dropped in a continuation of an attempt to make a play - not illegal.

 

[CoachJD]

I've always assumed the 'fake tag' is when the ball is not in the area of the play IE an intentional act to force the runner to slide when not necessary to keep the runner from advancing to the next base. If the ball is dropped in a continuation of an attempt to make a play - not illegal.

Correct. I don't even think it's really an umpire judgment thing as RAD suggests. If the ball is/was in the glove, an umpire is not going to call a fake tag. They're calling a fake tag when the ball is in right field and the SS is pretending there's a throw from the catcher and dropping a tag on a runner.

 

[flash277]

Has any umpire here ejected a coach or player for unsporting conduct? Or has anyone here seen it happen? In my ten years of coaching/watching/u mpiring, I've never seen it happen.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Has any umpire here ejected a coach or player for unsporting conduct? Or has anyone here seen it happen? In my ten years of coaching/watching/u mpiring, I've never seen it happen.

I warn a lot for profanity (because it's usually self-directed, not directed at opponent / umpire, so I consider it "minor").

I have seen a player ejected for profanity directed at someone else (though I haven't).

 

[_MIA_]

Has any umpire here ejected a coach or player for unsporting conduct? Or has anyone here seen it happen? In my ten years of coaching/watching/u mpiring, I've never seen it happen.

I got tossed in intramural basketball in college for making a bad “pass” which just happened to hit the ref in the as%

My DW (GF at the time) was working the front desk of the gym and asked me why I was leaving. She would have been smart to bolt right then and there when I told her..