University of Sydney swing study

[BadMonkeys]

The linked paper provided some physics research on forces applied to the bat. It indicates that a small positive couple is required to start the swing and a large negative couple is required near the end of the swing so that the bat lines up correctly on impact with the ball. Sure, I did look up some of that. I gather a simple couple is the hands connected to the arms pulling in opposite directions. I gather that a positive couple indicates counter clockwise movement and a negative couple, clockwise movement. Though I am not certain. What does that translate into for a young hitter?

 

[Greenmonsters]

This response is not just to you, but to a couple of others. I'll try to dumb it down. Yeah, I am smarter than most of you, that's pretty obvious and I don't apologize for it, or have a problem being arrogant about it. Most posters here show their ignorance often.

KMA if you don't like my arrogance. I deal in facts. Facts that most can't comprehend, no matter how much I dumb it down.

The physics involved in the internal combustion engine of a 1932 Ford Model A, are no different fundamentally than those working in a 2014 Ford. A fuel-air mixture is compressed and ignited and the explosion pushes a piston which turns a crankshaft which turns a drive shaft, which turns a trans-axle, which turns the rear wheels. The difference is that the 2014 version is highly refined.

The physics of a professional level swing, whether it be a AA player (1932 Ford) or Miguel Cabrerra (2014 Ford) are fundamentally the same also. Cabrerra is more like the 2014 version of the Ford.

The analysis presented in the OP lays out the fundamental physics. Whether the guy that they videoed is an AA player or the best MLB player, is irrelevant. The fundamental physics, of a fundamentally sound swing, are what they are. Described and confirmed by physicists many times over, over many years.

Some people are grasping at straws, questioning the results of the study, because the conclusions of this study and many others, prove that what they think to be true, is nonsense.

There you go again, JB. I'll be patient and try once again to help you understand the difference between facts and opinions by providing the following examples

Fact - you either don't read well or have trouble comprehending what you read
Fact - ignorance and stupidity are not synonyms
Fact - Cross' videoed hitter was not a AA, MLB, professional, or even an NCAA collegiate hitter, but rather a "right-handed player from the Sydney University baseball team".
Fact - you have absolutely no idea whether the Australian collegian's swing was fundamentally sound and efficient

Opinion - people who demonstrate the need to tell other people how smart they are usually aren't as smart as they think are
Opinion - the best teachers have the understanding and ability to take a complex task, such as swinging a bat efficiently, and effectively communicate and teach it to others
Opinion - you are not one of those elite teachers

Fact - I'd put you on ignore if I thought that you never brought something to the table here

Have a nice day - GM

 

[MountieSB]

There you go again, JB. I'll be patient and try once again to help you understand the difference between facts and opinions by providing the following examples

Fact - you either don't read well or have trouble comprehending what you read
Fact - ignorance and stupidity are not synonyms
Fact - Cross' videoed hitter was not a AA, MLB, professional, or even an NCAA collegiate hitter, but rather a "right-handed player from the Sydney University baseball team".
Fact - you have absolutely no idea whether the Australian collegian's swing was fundamentally sound and efficient

Opinion - people who demonstrate the need to tell other people how smart they are usually aren't as smart as they think are
Opinion - the best teachers have the understanding and ability to take a complex task, such as swinging a bat efficiently, and effectively communicate and teach it to others
Opinion - you are not one of those elite teachers

Fact - I'd put you on ignore if I thought that you never brought something to the table here

Have a nice day - GM

I think I'd take the chance on missing out on a nugget!

 

[MountieSB]

I said I was done posting but why, oh why would any one allow Jim to make a statement like this?
Are we this dumb? I guess so, when we have paid hitting indtrustors/paid/professionals telling us average dads how are DD should swing.
Ask them to post there DD/students and then see if we should listen to them?
I am a shamed.

This is why people should put him on ignore, rdbass. What he thinks he offers here really isn't worth the inevitable self-important, snarky responses to people coming here honestly seeking answers for their daughters.

 

[jbooth]

Fact - you either don't read well or have trouble comprehending what you read

Then how come when I took SAT tests and others that have components that measure reading comprehension, I scored in the top 10%?

Fact - ignorance and stupidity are not synonyms

I know this. Ignorance is being unaware or uninformed. Stupidity is when someone tries to remove your ignorance, but you can't comprehend what they're saying.

Fact - Cross' videoed hitter was not a AA, MLB, professional, or even an NCAA collegiate hitter, but rather a "right-handed player from the Sydney University baseball team".

I don't see how that matters. His ability is an unknown factor. He may be a prospect. How do you know?

Fact - you have absolutely no idea whether the Australian collegian's swing was fundamentally sound and efficient

I have an idea from the diagrams presented, which are very similar to those that I've seen of Mattingly, Boggs and some other MLB hitters. Dr. Coop DeRenne did similar, but not as detailed an analysis as this one, and the hand, shoulder, handle and tip paths are essentially the same as presented by Cross.

[Opinion] - people who demonstrate the need to tell other people how smart they are usually aren't as smart as they think are

That can be true, but I have a lot of test scores to back me up.

Opinion - the best teachers have the understanding and ability to take a complex task, such as swinging a bat efficiently, and effectively communicate and teach it to others

Agreed.

Opinion - you are not one of those elite teachers

How do you know that? You've never seen me teach a lesson. I don't teach it with overly technical stuff. I get into technical stuff here to try to prove how it works, not how to teach it.

Fact - I'd put you on ignore if I thought that you never brought something to the table here

Have a nice day - GM

I don't care if you ignore me. I believe many of the more intelligent lurkers and posters, get something from what I post.

I'll ask again for the millionth time, provide what you believe to be facts that refute what I state to be fact. Nobody ever does. They just say I'm wrong because they think so. Never with any evidence.

I take what MLB players say, what bio-mechanists and physicists say, and I try to correlate the three to determine facts. Most people that debate me simply make conclusions on what they THINK they see is happening when they view a video. That's not good enough.

 

[jbooth]

This is why people should put him on ignore, rdbass. What he thinks he offers here really isn't worth the inevitable self-important, snarky responses to people coming here honestly seeking answers for their daughters.

I don't give snarky answers to people seeking answers. I give snarky responses to people who deny facts, and/or show ignorance.

 

[PGSAKen]

I don't give snarky answers to people seeking answers. I give snarky responses to people who deny facts, and/or show ignorance.

Have you executed any studies of your own. Your knowledge of the topic suggests two possible outcomes:

1) You have studied the topic relentlessly from a scientific perspective and have your own hypothesis in which you would have naturally tested out of curiosity if nothing else.

2) You have plenty of time to use google and troll

And being an educator means nothing if you can not captivate your audience and then translate the knowledge you posses to them.

That being said I agree with your analysis and if I had that much of an understanding I would be a MBL hitting coach at the minimum!

 

[Eric F]

I haven't been at DFP very long, and I still have a ton to learn about MANY parts of the game of softball, but I've found this place extremely helpful - and occasionally entertaining. It seems to me that a lot of really good information and intelligent discussion about hitting all too often gets muddied up with personal bashing between people who have differing opinions about the best way to do it. It's kind of sad, really.

Stay classy, DFP.

 

[PGSAKen]

case in point

 

[jbooth]

View attachment 4435

case in point

Good point, but what IS simple to one person may not be simple to another.

I DO keep it simple in actual instruction. I go into highly technical detail when I'm trying to prove someone wrong, who keeps stating things that are not fact. Or, to show them through technical facts, why what they say is not true. Unfortunately, many of them either can't comprehend the facts, or just refuse to accept them, because it makes them lose face.

I'd bet that Einstein may have thought he was keeping it simple, but it may be that it was only simple to his peers, not necessarily the rest of us folks.