Started hitting lessons with my daughter when she was 9. She goes once a week, every week. She is not a gifted athlete but she works hard and puts in more time than any other player on her team. In that 2 years time she went from hitting 247 to over 700 and now is back down to 580. We started lessons mostly because of me, not her. I was too hard on her when we would work on hitting. I expected too much too soon and it was ruining our father/daughter relationship. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't change a thing.
Honest question regarding amount of instruction
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- Jun 8, 2016
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I never thought about it from this angle..to keep my sanity I might be forced to do this too particularly when she hits puberty
One of the things instruction does is level the playing field between the great athletes and the kids with less natural ability. A kid with less athleticism can pass up a kid with more who never learns to go beyond what they can naturally do.
That said, there has to be time for the player to work some of it out on their own. I will always tell students (and their parents) that the time they spend with me is the least important part of the process. It's the time they spend in-between visits where they will make the biggest jumps. As an instructor I provide the guidance on what to do. But the player has to be willing to put in the work with no one watching to make it a natural part of what they do.
That's important too. For pitching it definitely helps to have a catcher, and often that's a parent. But it doesn't mean the parent has to critique every pitch. Just shut up and catch, and let the player figure it out on her own. (I also have to remind myself at lessons sometimes to shut up and give the player a chance to try something a few times so she can get a feel for it.) It's not like instant oatmeal. It takes time.
Hitting can easily be practiced by yourself. Get the direction, know what you need to work on, then go work on it with no one in your ear.
As a general rule, I will tell parents no more than one lesson per week unless there's some level of urgency to get something fixed. More lessons don't really help in my opinion. You need time in-between to internalize the learning. I also work with players on learning to self-instruct. Rather than telling them what to do (once they've learned it) I will ask them what the correction is. Amazing how many times they have the right answer all along.
It's a rare player who can develop quality mechanics or even a strong mental approach by themselves. Nearly all need help. But it doesn't have to be constant either. There's a balance.
That said, there has to be time for the player to work some of it out on their own. I will always tell students (and their parents) that the time they spend with me is the least important part of the process. It's the time they spend in-between visits where they will make the biggest jumps. As an instructor I provide the guidance on what to do. But the player has to be willing to put in the work with no one watching to make it a natural part of what they do.
That's important too. For pitching it definitely helps to have a catcher, and often that's a parent. But it doesn't mean the parent has to critique every pitch. Just shut up and catch, and let the player figure it out on her own. (I also have to remind myself at lessons sometimes to shut up and give the player a chance to try something a few times so she can get a feel for it.) It's not like instant oatmeal. It takes time.
Hitting can easily be practiced by yourself. Get the direction, know what you need to work on, then go work on it with no one in your ear.
As a general rule, I will tell parents no more than one lesson per week unless there's some level of urgency to get something fixed. More lessons don't really help in my opinion. You need time in-between to internalize the learning. I also work with players on learning to self-instruct. Rather than telling them what to do (once they've learned it) I will ask them what the correction is. Amazing how many times they have the right answer all along.
It's a rare player who can develop quality mechanics or even a strong mental approach by themselves. Nearly all need help. But it doesn't have to be constant either. There's a balance.
- Jun 8, 2016
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Just wanted to thank everyone so far who has made a comment in the thread. Some good food for thought for me as my little girl progresses.
I watched a HS baseball game a while back. Almost every kid had bat drag. same goes for all the youth games i watched. boys and girls. You all probably did also.
I hit great, with bat drag. Until the level of competition rose, quality of pitching increased. Then you Will fail, and fall off.
this is also true with other mechanics not taught, such as sequence.
The sooner sequence and mechanics are repaired and taught, then success will continue with no fall off. You do not have to obsess with mechanics, and it can be made fun for all those youth involved. To hit velocity, and increase bat speed, hit farther harder square up on all pitches, will bring more smile than those that struggle because their elbow is stuck in front of their hands.
I hit great, with bat drag. Until the level of competition rose, quality of pitching increased. Then you Will fail, and fall off.
this is also true with other mechanics not taught, such as sequence.
The sooner sequence and mechanics are repaired and taught, then success will continue with no fall off. You do not have to obsess with mechanics, and it can be made fun for all those youth involved. To hit velocity, and increase bat speed, hit farther harder square up on all pitches, will bring more smile than those that struggle because their elbow is stuck in front of their hands.
I like what Mann has to say here.
My practical experience is that most people -- kids and parents -- think hitting, or at least developing a good swing, is easy, and that they already have a good swing and don't need instruction (or if they get instruction, one lesson should be enough and should result in massive improvement). They are mostly wrong.
At the same time, it is extremely rare that a pitcher teaches themselves. Most pitchers go to lessons weekly, for years. And they improve, slowly but surely and learn new stuff and gain speed year by year.
There's this idea that pitching is much harder to learn than hitting. I'd argue that good hitting is as hard to learn as good pitching -- and just as important an area in which to put in good, steady, studied work that results, in good, steady, learned improvement.
THAT's the best way, as the OP said, for a hitter to really "own" their swing.
My practical experience is that most people -- kids and parents -- think hitting, or at least developing a good swing, is easy, and that they already have a good swing and don't need instruction (or if they get instruction, one lesson should be enough and should result in massive improvement). They are mostly wrong.
At the same time, it is extremely rare that a pitcher teaches themselves. Most pitchers go to lessons weekly, for years. And they improve, slowly but surely and learn new stuff and gain speed year by year.
There's this idea that pitching is much harder to learn than hitting. I'd argue that good hitting is as hard to learn as good pitching -- and just as important an area in which to put in good, steady, studied work that results, in good, steady, learned improvement.
THAT's the best way, as the OP said, for a hitter to really "own" their swing.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
IMO the struggle with pitching is that it is a highly monotonous activity ... long hours of repetitive work ... and many youth tend to get bored prematurely. Rather than truly master 3-4 pitches, many tend to move on to a larger array of pitches and end up not mastering any particular pitch.
Hitting could be considered highly monotonous as well. Let's face it ... we aren't teaching a large array of swings. For many, one particular swing is all that is focused on. Like taking a small kid to a lake/pond to throw rocks ... the 'cause and effect' relationship of seeing the result captivates the kids attention. Hitting is the same way. It's fun.
Hitting could be considered highly monotonous as well. Let's face it ... we aren't teaching a large array of swings. For many, one particular swing is all that is focused on. Like taking a small kid to a lake/pond to throw rocks ... the 'cause and effect' relationship of seeing the result captivates the kids attention. Hitting is the same way. It's fun.
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- Jun 8, 2016
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So is it fair for me to say that you believe that even if one took out the other stuff (better nutrition, weight training, etc) hitters of say 90's, 00's and 10's (when early age hitting coaching trend started??) would still on average be better than hitters from early eras when perhaps proper hitting mechanics were not taught at early age but perhaps more "instructionless "swinging was done (pickup games, stickball/speedball, wiffle ball, etc).
In my neighborhood ( I grow up in the 60's through 80's) the kids that weren't good didn't play or get to play in these 'pick up' games. Also because of 'instruction-less' training most players were equal in talent. The 'natural' talented (so we thought but, later found out that these athletes were getting some sort of extra training) athletes were the better players/athletes and were able to get to play on the high school teams.
Today most times when ever you step on the court, field, or ice ect...you may, more than likely be facing a player that is specific to that sport. That player is receiving specific training geared towards that sport. Other players may be playing catch up. Not saying that player won't catch up and pass that player but, I would be doubtful. JMHO.
- Jun 8, 2016
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Basically the instruction most benefits people within +/- 3 sigma from the mean in terms of athletic ability...e.g. most people. For the outliers (either positive or negative) it won't do much...
