Honest question regarding amount of instruction

[_MIA_]

First of all just joined the forum and am glad to see so many people passionate about softball. Also I apologize if
the content of this thread has been discussed previously or if I have placed it in the wrong forum.

My question (well maybe not a question but more of a comment?? ) is in regards to the amount of instruction
kids receive (in particular in the US) from adults now at a young age. Perusing the boards I see technical
discussion regarding all facets of hitting from well-intentioned parents who are attempting to help their kids. My question is,
outside of proper setup of hands and stance, how much of this would be needed if the kids just went out and played a lot ball
and allowed their body to decide their swing mechanics based upon the feedback provided by actually
hitting the ball? Is the amount of instruction going on due to kids just not playing enough ball out at the parks
like kids of my age (40something) and moreso my fathers age (70something) used to?? Does the instruction actually take into account different
body mechanics as self-feedback would likely do??

I used to play a lot of ball with both kids my age and my father as well and I can't ever remember receiving any instruction at all till I started playing in college.
While I am not saying I was the model of hitting (certainly far from it otherwise I wouldn't be sitting at this desk...) it also seems to me if you look at the swings of
the best hitters of all time going back to the early 20th century till now, most seem to "own" their swings and
you would be hard-pressed to find any two which alike. Of course at contact many are alike but my question is how did they learn to get into
the right position? Through lots instruction or just through the natural progression of getting a swing which is comfortable to them which allowed them
to make good contact the most frequently?? E.g. how I envision Ted Williams learning to hit in the sandlots of San Diego or Big Papi
in the Dominican?? Perhaps these elite hitters are outliers and lots of instruction will help the kids who aren't
Ted WIlliams/Barry Bonds or is it really that today's parents micromanage every part of their child's life including
their swing??

I have a 6 year old who likes to play ball with Daddy and is pretty athletic and I can understand the feeling of wanting to micromanage the swing..I am
just trying to get a handle on much of that feeling I need to resist in particular as she gets older.

Anyway, again, great forum and I hope everybody has a great day.

 

[inde53546]

I'm interested to hear peoples responses. I will add that I do think there are general differences in genders. My son from a very young age was constantly throwing things, toys, Rocks, snowballs, footballs, baseballs etc, he and his friends also have been playing whiffle ball and play more on there own than my daughter and her friends/team mates so he is much more natural and self taught than my dd. That being said he hates to hit off of a tee or be structured doing drills, he just wants to hit. My daughter on the other hand is much more willing to take instruction, do drills etc.

 

[joe720]

my 2 cents is that it is a good thing that you intervene early in the process. It is much easier to get them using correct mechanics from the beginning as opposed to breaking bad habits after a while. Old habits die hard, and they will usually revert to them in times of question.

 

[grcsftbll]

I'm interested to hear peoples responses. I will add that I do think there are general differences in genders. My son from a very young age was constantly throwing things, toys, Rocks, snowballs, footballs, baseballs etc, he and his friends also have been playing whiffle ball and play more on there own than my daughter and her friends/team mates so he is much more natural and self taught than my dd. That being said he hates to hit off of a tee or be structured doing drills, he just wants to hit. My daughter on the other hand is much more willing to take instruction, do drills etc.

That's not gender, it's personality. I've got 2 girls. My softball player wanted to play catch with her stuffed animals from the time she learned to control her hands. She's like a golden retriever, you can see her eyes light up anytime there's a ball in her vicinity. My older one plays baseball, and she likes it ok but it's just something to do. My younger one is far more advanced in her skills than my older one, because she loves it so much and has been "practicing" (ie, catching and throwing stuff, hitting for fun) for a long time just because she wanted to. And to put even more twist on that, my older, disinterested one is a HUGE tomboy. People think she's a boy all the time because she has short hair and dresses like a boy. My younger one is completely girly. She loves to fix her hair and make up and all that jazz. I'm pretty sure gender doesn't really have anything to do w/ this, it just happened to line up that way for your kids.

As for lessons I think it depends on the child in question and the skill level of the parents. I don't know much about hitting but my husband does. My older one has no interest in practicing extra and she's the one who could benefit from lessons probably (or at least from listening to her dad, but she won't even do that, haha). My younger one's a natural hitter. I don't think she used the tee more than once or twice even in her first season of rec 6U. She just has a knack for it. We have her in pitching lessons already and that's enough for now IMO. But if kids are struggling with hitting or have specific issues they need to address I think lessons can be really helpful.

 

[FP26]

In my opinion, this can be answered in many different ways. And nearly every parent/coach will have their own thoughts on the subject. That said, I would be glad to offer mine.

1) Yes, in many cases children would benefit from simply playing the game more. I played a lot of ball when I was younger. In fact, growing up as a Phillies fan, I would often emulate the entire Phillies lineup while playing; Garry Maddox, Manny Trillo, Pete Rose, Mike Schmidt, Bake McBride, Greg Luzinski, Bob Boone, Larry Bowa, etc. I would often throw in Greg Gross just because
2) I also think we know a lot more about the swing than we did 50, 60, 70 years ago. Progress can be a good thing. Think about it, did anyone even consider a internet forum called DFP 70 years ago? Yet here we are, sharing information, and communicating with each other. Why shouldn't hitting, pitching, fielding, etc. follow the same course of improvement? Think about the technology available; Zepp and other swing analyzers, slow motion video, etc. Why not try to leverage the technology to make improvements where possible.
3) In my opinion, every swing can be divided into two parts. Some will refer to them as "style" and "sequence". You could alter this and call them "style" and "absolutes". In my opinion there are some things that all good hitters do. In using your names, there are similarities between Ted Williams and David Ortiz. There are certain things they do that are the same. There are also things that are not the same. This is where style enters the equation.
4) Building on #3 above, some coaches take instruction too far, in my opinion. Some are so focused on the "absolutes", that they attempt to strip all the style away from students swing. They tear away the student's athleticism. If you can't tell by now, I am not a fan of cookie cutter approaches. In my opinion, a hitter should be permitted (even promoted) to find their own style, as long as the style does not interfere with their sequence.

So, in a nutshell, I am not opposed to the new version of coaching provided it allows for the development of personal style and builds off a students natural athleticism, rather than hindering it. Help the student. Do not micro-manage them.

 

[JAD]

Not an expert on the subject, but learning proper mechanics early is much easier than trying to correct them after bad habits have become ingrained...

 

[_MIA_]

"Think about it, did anyone even consider a internet forum called DFP 70 years ago? " Right..I guess my question could have been worded should I get off this damn forum before I ruin my
kid...

 

[djcarter1966]

As far as fielding and throwing...this is something that really is a practice and repetition thing. There are proper techniques but in the end you have to stop or catch the ball and then throw it back...I cant tell you how many hours I spent just doing this with friends but a lot with my dad too. You throw pop ups and grounders long throw and short throws without the internet and your cell phone to worry about you could be out there for hours just playing and after a while you notice not many balls get by you, you don't drop balls and you can throw the ball anywhere that your size and strength will allow. I remember my DD when she was little watching my son and I play catch just talking and passing time and after about ten minutes one time she was just standing there with this amazed look in her eyes, I asked her what was up and she asked how we could throw the back and forth like that without dropping it or throwing it away (she was just starting to play catch with me from time to time and our sessions of catch usually were more of an adventure)

The same is true for hitting although what happens is you develop the hand and eye coordination and can hit the ball just fine but as the pitchers get better you can't rely on simple BP you have to see live good pitching to hit it. I am also a big believer in the few absolutes and lots of style things...for hitting the biggest absolute is your position at toe touch or if zero front foot movement instant before you begin the forward motion/swing, the problem is many teach style as absolutes.

For softball pitching especially I think technology is a huge help, although a really good instructor can pick things out without video, I find it very helpful.

All that do say you can get bad habits early so it does not hurt to receive quality instruction but as far as hitting lessons and pitching lesson twice a week from 8U until 18U that is probably overkill, but practice does not make perfect, perfect practice make perfect.

 

[canyonjoe]

I guess my answer would bet that I send my son to piano lessons because he can't just pick it up on his own.

I do question if people need to go to hitting lessons 52 weeks a year at 8U. I see some kids really improve in a few weeks
while others seem to go forever and never change their swing. The best coaches teach kids how to hit and not just to
swing. They learn to hit in certain counts versus just hacking away at the first pitch because it's near the plate. So many
kids will pop up a borderline pitch at 2-0 in a one run game or roll over on an outside pitch on the first pitch.

 

[_MIA_]

I guess my answer would bet that I send my son to piano lessons because he can't just pick it up on his own.

I do question if people need to go to hitting lessons 52 weeks a year at 8U. I see some kids really improve in a few weeks
while others seem to go forever and never change their swing. The best coaches teach kids how to hit and not just to
swing. They learn to hit in certain counts versus just hacking away at the first pitch because it's near the plate. So many
kids will pop up a borderline pitch at 2-0 in a one run game or roll over on an outside pitch on the first pitch.

No reason why he can't take piano and play ball

My question was not whether or not you should work with the kid..just
what kind of work should be done. As I said I played a lot of ball growing up, as did all of my friends and teammates. Some of it
was with my old man, a lot of it was with friends (stickball,wiffle ball, you name it). Most of it was instructionless and my father
played in college too so he knew/knows the game fairly well. Most I can remember is him fixing my hand positioning when I was a bit
late on some balls my first year of Pony league. Even in college the only thing they had me work on was staying more closed with my
front foot. Granted this wasn't D1 college ball (D3) but the program is and was pretty good and coach knew what he was doing. Of course
it is possible my Dad coached the hell out of me when I 3 and 4 and I don't remember it..probably should ask him

I guess I am just questioning what would have happened if (just an example obviously) some or all of the "instructionless" play
was replaced by time spent with some hardcore instruction. There is no perfect answer to this obviously and maybe one
needs to understand the kid and how they absorb and take to coaching in order to know the right amount.