Understanding the real "enemy"

[Hitter]

In my opinion, the idea of hitting in a long zone is a myth.

The only way to accomplish this is the push the hands forward through the strike zone, and no good hitter does this.

I also have tons of video of Pujols and have never seen any evidence that his zone is longer than average. The only significant difference is that his bat speed is only 87 MPH, which causes the head of his bat to stay in the strike zone a bit longer.

Chris

Try it yourself as a teaching tool and see where the bat is as to the caution tape when your bat first enters the zone and when it exits the zone and tell us what your big zone is.

Bustos does not push the bat and has less bat speed than AP and has hit a softball 450 plus feet.

The hands are traveling linear until we release the barrel to the ball and in this demo the ball is being hit up the middle.

I am not saying Enquist, Candrea and Slaught are not educated however I like the concept and buy into it and it has worked for several years to teach to keep the hands inside the ball very well.

Tony Gwyn is on film speaking of taking the knob to the ball and he was a pretty decent hitter from what most people say however I would not teach that and he uses the MLB swing pattern doesn't he?

Thanks Howard

 

[JC heir]

Very interesting conversation going on here- I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the clinic with Hitter & CB this weekend- What a wonderful & enlightening experience that was for my family & friends. some of the things I picked up from the weekend were especially how important the grip is , as well as a well balanced stance.

It was clearly demonstrated to us that in a conventional grip, when you come to contact, there is nothing but the meaty web between the thumb & forefinger behind the bat which does not lead to good forceful followthrough at contact......conversly with the grip Hitter is teaching, you have the good solid bone at the bottom of your forefingerin the ppad of the hand forcing the bat through contact....- hope that makes sense.

One thing I have learned while teaching pitching kind of relates to hitters "Church concept"......sometimes when you pick a camp & try to teach it, sometimes the better athletes will get it right in spite of your mistakes. I found this a year ago when internal rotation came to light...we were teaching bowling, & when I studied our better pitchers, they were actually internally rotating. I think some of the same may be happening in our better hitters when it comes to teaching Long Zone vs rotational vs linear, etc.........

On a side note, I thank you all for your thoughts & prayers during our loss- Lane

 

[Hitter]

Very interesting conversation going on here- I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the clinic with Hitter & CB this weekend- What a wonderful & enlightening experience that was for my family & friends. some of the things I picked up from the weekend were especially how important the grip is , as well as a well balanced stance.

It was clearly demonstrated to us that in a conventional grip, when you come to contact, there is nothing but the meaty web between the thumb & forefinger behind the bat which does not lead to good forceful followthrough at contact......conversly with the grip Hitter is teaching, you have the good solid bone at the bottom of your forefingerin the ppad of the hand forcing the bat through contact....- hope that makes sense.

One thing I have learned while teaching pitching kind of relates to hitters "Church concept"......sometimes when you pick a camp & try to teach it, sometimes the better athletes will get it right in spite of your mistakes. I found this a year ago when internal rotation came to light...we were teaching bowling, & when I studied our better pitchers, they were actually internally rotating. I think some of the same may be happening in our better hitters when it comes to teaching Long Zone vs rotational vs linear, etc.........

On a side note, I thank you all for your thoughts & prayers during our loss- Lane

Lane

I can not imagine what you all are going through right now and all the memories that were lost in the fire.

I hope the insurance companies are stepping up to help you in every way they can.

Please send me your address in a PM.

I enjoyed having dinner with you and your daughters and your friends and hope the clinic help shed some light on hitting and throwing the ball.

Keep your head up and you are in Gods hands and our prayers.

Thanks Howard

 

[Tewks]

Chris

Try it yourself as a teaching tool and see where the bat is as to the caution tape when your bat first enters the zone and when it exits the zone and tell us what your big zone is.

Bustos does not push the bat and has less bat speed than AP and has hit a softball 450 plus feet.

The hands are traveling linear until we release the barrel to the ball and in this demo the ball is being hit up the middle.

I am not saying Enquist, Candrea and Slaught are not educated however I like the concept and buy into it and it has worked for several years to teach to keep the hands inside the ball very well.

Tony Gwyn is on film speaking of taking the knob to the ball and he was a pretty decent hitter from what most people say however I would not teach that and he uses the MLB swing pattern doesn't he?

Thanks Howard

Tony Gwynn now uses the phrase, "Swing the knob of the bat."

 

[tom.guerry]

in my opinion, the "long zone" and "plane matching" are best understood achieving the primary goal of minimizing timing error.

there is an important spatial aspect to this that also makes a solid collision (squaring the ball) more likely.

I think one of the most important ways to think of it is the way Williams depicts it in SCIENCE OF HITTING where you want to get the joy spot squarely on the ball anywhere from 15 degrees before "perpendicular" to 30 degrees after perpendicular.

this means the bat must be up to speed by 15 degrees early and still able to accelerate until 30 degrees late.

since the bat is picking up speed, this puts "perpendicular" in the middle of the timing zone.

another important aspect of timing error was emphasized from the motor control literature by Nyman (setpro) which is the hypothesis that the greatest source of timing error in a swing (swings are produced by matching learned swing programs to recognized pitch location - see more recent editions of Adair for summary) is programming the duration of the swing from launch to contact.

this error is optimized/minimized by a swing path (bathead path from launch to contact) that is as short as possible and traversed as quickly as possible.

so in summary you need a swing that starts spatially early and gets up to speed quickly. early batspeed, enabling max read time and late adjustability.



?spinal axis?

 

[Chris O'Leary]

The hands are traveling linear until we release the barrel to the ball and in this demo the ball is being hit up the middle.

I don't see any linear hand paths in good swings.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

so in summary you need a swing that starts spatially early and gets up to speed quickly. early batspeed, enabling max read time and late adjustability.

This implies that you get up to maximum speed quickly and then stay at maximum speed for an extended period of time, which isn't how a swing works due to the kinetic chain.

In the kinetic chain, you are either accelerating or decelerating.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

?spinal axis?

?flat earth?

 

[Hitter]

I don't see any linear hand paths in good swings.

Chris

I hate to say this however the world is full of them and they make more money than you or me doing it.

It is to what degree it is linear and that is an argument you can have with yourself....in my world it is linear to a degree and becomes semi circular.

I liked Bruce Lees wisdom and it may fit here for some of us.......


"Bruce smiled and placed his hand lightly on my shoulder. “Let me
tell you a story my sifu told me,”￾ he said.

“It is about the Japanese Zen master who received a university
professor who came to inquire about Zen. It was obvious to the
master from the start of the conversation that the professor was
not so much interested in learning about Zen as he was in
impressing the master with his own opinions and knowledge.

The master listened patiently and finally suggested they have tea.
The master poured his visitor’s cup full and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the cup overflowing until he could no longer
restrain himself. “The cup is overfull, no more will go in.”
“Like this cup,” the master said, “you are full of your own
opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first
empty your cup”

Bruce studied my face. “You want me to empty my mind of past
knowledge and old habits so that I will be open to new learning”
“Precisely” said Bruce. “And now we are ready to begin your first
lesson.”

This does not mean that Bruce prevented me from applying a critical
mind to his teaching. In fact, he welcomed discussing, even
argument. But when challenged too long on a point his reply was
always, “At least empty your cup and try.”

I am not the Master and I am still learning myself.

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

illustrations from SCIENCE OF HITTING are copied on this page:

- Plane Matching