Umpiring Question

[RedeemerKing]

Played a 12u USSSA game today where opposing runners were leaving early. Rival teams—tight, low scoring game.

Between innings, discreetly asked base ump if he could keep an eye on it. He dismissively says

“I’ve been watching it, no one is leaving early”.

“Ok, thanks”

The leaving early continues unchecked and results in a key stolen base which leads to a run. Asst coach verified with our camera dad and collects a screen grab of the early departure—then discreetly approached again between innings.

“Blue, I really think they are leaving early.”

“ I told you they aren’t”

“I know you did—but they are. Would you like to see the still images showing the girl who just stole 2nd well off the bag prior to release?”

“You’re out of line”


As an umpire—why would you clearly dismiss something like that? I certainly did not expect him to look at tape but was hoping it would be watched more closely going forward which it never was as the practice continued.

Any umpire guidance out there on how they would handle that? A situation where you were informed there is clear evidence of a recurring infraction. Illegal pitch, leaving early, whatever. Would you dismiss or do anything to address?

 

[Strike2]

I'd take it to the UIC, including the video, after the game.

 

[CoachJD]

You should definitely not offer to show video/pictures during the game, but you should definitely go to the UIC and say it was pointed out a number of times and the umpire wasn't interested in doing his job properly. Show the UIC the video after the fact.

 

[EdLovrich]

You should definitely not offer to show video/pictures during the game

THIS^^ Since it is a violation of 11.2.G
RULE 11. SPORTING BEHAVIOR
Sec 2. A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:
g. Use electronic communication, television monitoring or replay equipment during the course of the game. Electronic scorebooks may be used to record the current game
PENALTYA-K: FIRST OFFENSE is a team warning. SECOND OFFENSE and any subsequent violation the offender is restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game and their current head coach shall be ejected

So yes, you were out of line. That being said, depending on number of umpires, leaving early can be hard to see, depending on how early they are leaving. As an umpire, I will tell you yes, I will watch for it, but then, I should be watching for it as best I can at all times. If I haven't called it, either I am not seeing what you are seeing or it isn't happening.

 

[gdc03120]

^ I agree with the above response by EdLovrich. If it's not being called, more than likely it's either not being seen swiftly enough to be called OR it's not happening. I've done LL ball for 14 years and HS/travel ball for going on my 3rd, and my instructors always said, "If you're 99% sure it happened, it didn't happen. Leave the doubt in your car and make every call 100% confidently." So in this case, the official may genuinely not be seeing it.

As for offering any sort of evidence, I know that would certainly warrant a warning from me - not because I feel I'm being showed up at my job, but because a.) It's against the rules, and b.) It's not going to get me to change how I'm calling the plays if I wasn't seeing it before. If I wasn't calling it in the first inning, and it's happening the same exact way in the 5th, you're not getting that call in the 5th. If it's blatantly obvious, you'll get the call, of course, but just because Jane Doe in the dugout or sidelines has some form of amateur phone recording or NFL instant replay means 0 to me.

 

[CoachJD]

So yes, you were out of line. That being said, depending on number of umpires, leaving early can be hard to see, depending on how early they are leaving. As an umpire, I will tell you yes, I will watch for it, but then, I should be watching for it as best I can at all times. If I haven't called it, either I am not seeing what you are seeing or it isn't happening.

Unfortunately, based on my experience, what's more likely is the umpire got his feelings hurt by even suggesting he didn't see something and so the runner could've been 40 feet off the base and he still wouldn't have called it.

Are all umpires like this? Nope. But at least around here it's the vast majority.

(I may or may not have had to file special reports on a couple umps recently and I'm still concerned about the vendetta they'll take out on our girls if they do any more of our games)

 

[CoachJD]

As for offering any sort of evidence, I know that would certainly warrant a warning from me - not because I feel I'm being showed up at my job, but because a.) It's against the rules, and b.) It's not going to get me to change how I'm calling the plays if I wasn't seeing it before. If I wasn't calling it in the first inning, and it's happening the same exact way in the 5th, you're not getting that call in the 5th. If it's blatantly obvious, you'll get the call, of course, but just because Jane Doe in the dugout or sidelines has some form of amateur phone recording or NFL instant replay means 0 to me.

OK, so this is exactly the kind of attitude that should prevent someone from being allowed to ever umpire another game at any level. While I agree that someone should not show you a video, your reason "b" is a huge problem. You just admitted that you're not willing to look at evidence and change how you do your job. We're talking about evidence that clearly shows you are wrong, but you don't care? Because you are above video evidence? For real? So if you watched a video and the runner was 10 feet off the base every single time, you wouldn't think "Hey, maybe I'm not looking at this the right way?"

If you weren't calling it a certain way in the first inning and you're proven to be without a doubt wrong, you should probably adjust how you call things in the 5th.

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

Isn't it also against the rules in most rule sets to address spectators, especially for the purpose of getting on the umps.

You seem to be insistent on wanting the umps to enforce the rules to the letter while completely dismissing them for yourself and your fans.

 

[RedeemerKing]

My gut instinct in this scenario was that the umpire was offended by my asking him to “please keep an eye on it”. I intentionally did it between innings discreetly so as not to appear to be showing him up. Every so often you run into an ump who values being “right” more than being correct. Fortunately that’s fairly rare for us.

I’m convinced that he had to have seen it happening after he was made aware but chose not to call it as doing so would indicate that he really was missing it from the jump.

I toyed with having our runners leave early as well but feel like he’d have used that as a chance to call it just to spite me for having the audacity to politely ask him to keep an eye on something.

 

[EdLovrich]

My gut instinct in this scenario was that the umpire was offended by my asking him to “please keep an eye on it”. I intentionally did it between innings discreetly so as not to appear to be showing him up. Every so often you run into an ump who values being “right” more than being correct.

As an umpire of many decades, I will try to reassure you that being offended was the last thing on the umpires mind, especially if you approached him/her discreetly and politely between innings. My first question, in much the same vein, is,v"Why would someone have that as their gut instinct, unless they themselves would be offended by the remark?"

Do we really think that little of the people who give up their family time, their relaxing time, to help our DDs (and DSs in other sports) improve their leisure time, learn leadership and team-building skills, to become better citizens and people in general, all the while enduring the ridicule of loud-mouthed, boorish, non-rule knowing parents and coaches (you know, the ones who AREN'T members of DFP), for little pay when compared to the costs and time involved.

If you truly think the umpire was offended, then perhaps you realized that what you said and/or how you said it was offensive. Either that or you think very little of your fellow man, "Redeemer King"