When should an umpire just be quiet?

[EdLovrich]

Different sport, but in football you will often see receivers check with the line judge to make sure they're lined up legally.

Unless the mechanics have changed (and they may have) I was taught you simply inform the WR that your belt buckle is on the line. So. I agree telling a WR they are lined up offsides would be the wrong thing to do.

Also, different sport: in ice hockey I will caution players when contact, especially when away from the puck, is bordering on excessive, since the amount of allowable contact is only broadly defined at levels where body checking is permitted. Different animal I know, but to say that an official giving input is ALWAYS wrong, or is crossing a line is simplistic, IMO.

 

[CoachJD]

Unless the mechanics have changed (and they may have) I was taught you simply inform the WR that your belt buckle is on the line. So. I agree telling a WR they are lined up offsides would be the wrong thing to do.

Also, different sport: in ice hockey I will caution players when contact, especially when away from the puck, is bordering on excessive, since the amount of allowable contact is only broadly defined at levels where body checking is permitted. Different animal I know, but to say that an official giving input is ALWAYS wrong, or is crossing a line is simplistic, IMO.

I get what you mean with hockey. Every official's judgment of excessive is likely different. It's also potentially a safety issue, so in those cases, a warning during the action that things are getting a bit too chippy is fine. I think a basketball official can do the same thing without necessarily calling a foul.

I don't see that as the same as warning about almost pitching illegally, as those rules are more specifically defined and less up to the judgment of the umpire.

 

[radness]

Coaching the player is instructing her on how to do better.

 

[MoJo]

The "framing" discussions are indeed ..... "interesting". Umps say that it has no influence to the point of annoying yet coaches/players train framing from the very beginning. Coaches even have it on their checklists during tryouts. MLB catchers all the way down to t-ball actively frame pitches.

I have heard many an umpire admit that framing influences the calls of balls and strikes. Even multiple times on this thread.

 

[EdLovrich]

There is a difference between framing pitches and pulling pitches

 

[radness]

There is a difference between framing pitches and pulling pitches

Yes there is.

That said,
they are both mechanics that are coached. (regardless if one works better than the other)

Also some people are coaching catchers to lean way outside of the strike zone to get behind pitches by leaning their whole body outside of the strike zone when catching the pitch.
( the catcher starts off behind the plate and ends up leaning to the sides of it. Not adjusting feet. And not starting on the inside/outside egde)
Rather the big body leaning is actually there interpretation of framing receiving to help pitch look better.
Even though the catcher's arm and glove could reach the pitch without having to move the entire body.

There are also catchers who either catch the ball out in front of them.
(Like a stop sign.)
And other catchers who bend their elbow and catch the ball really close to their chests with a sideways arm.

There are a lot of things that catchers can do.
it should be noted that none of these things are illegal.

 

[EdLovrich]

There are a lot of things that catchers can do. And it should be noted that none of these things are illegal.

Correct, and not sure that anyone has said it was.

A few observations and thoughts from an umpire (my personal thoughts and observations YMMV):

'Framing' (i.e. sticking the pitch and freezing for a moment), is a good thing, it gives the umpire an additional split second to look at the pitch AND gives the catcher an opportunity to turn the wrist, on occasion buying an extra half inch or inch into the zone.

'Pulling' (i.e. quite noticeably moving the ball and glove into the zone, often as much as six or more inches total travel). Bad thing, it does not allow the umpire the extra split second to see where the actual pitch location was, it tells the umpire that the C thought the pitch was out of the zone (otherwise why pull the pitch?), it tells the batter's HC that the C thought the pitch was out of the zone and will wonder when the U calls a strike what is going on. Sometimes the C is pulling a pitch that was actually in the zone to start with. This means one of two scenarios can occur: 1) the pitch was borderline maybe a strike maybe not. By pulling the C has taken away that extra split second that framing gives AND it tells the U that the C thinks the pitch was out of the zone enough to not have been called a strike. Result: possibly cost your P a strike that the U would have been happy to call. 2) The C pulls a pitch that was obviously out of the zone. This fools nobody and MIGHT make an U think you are trying to show him/her up. Result: No bueno.

Catchers leaning to catch the pitch. Meh, if you are going outside no effect, if you are coming inside, you are more than likely going to to screen me and I wont be able to call as many strikes. That being said; you do you, girl and catch the ball the way coach tells you. Just be aware of the inside. Recommendation: Unless you are reacting to a missed location, move before the P actually delivers the pitch, it is possible to shift too late for the batter to be able to make use of the information and give the U a chance to still shift if s/he needs to to still get a good look at the pitch all the way to the mitt.

Catching out in front or in close to the body: Out front and freezing the mitt has the advantages listed above. In close to the body, especially if the C works OKD, is the newest technique. It truly makes the U call the pitch on its merits (since s/he gets no clues from the location of where the ball was caught) AND gives the U the best view of the zone. The perfect way to work IF you can do it effectively AND your U doesn't shrink the zone.

I am sure some of you are thinking, "why all this talk about how and where the ball is caught? The pitch is a strike or a ball based on if it passes through the zone" This is true, but umpires are human, we take all cues and hints into consideration when we make a quick decision, where did our eyes track the ball. If it is a breaking pitch, where would the ball be caught if it just clipped the corner. Even if a drop or CU DID catch the bottom of the zone, can I call a pitch in the dirt a strike? Does the C move (either arm or entire body) in such a way that my calling a strike won't pass the 'stink test' for the oppo HC.

None of these are listed in the rule book as having any bearing of calling balls and strikes. They shouldn't be. But we are human, they do make a difference and those are some of the reason why "this is today's strike zone, I will do my best to keep it consistent from start to finish in today's game and each time you see me as your umpire"

 

[inumpire]

There is a difference between framing pitches and pulling pitches

And very few coaches or catcher know the difference or how to actually frame a pitch.