Turning the barrel

[jbooth]

Yes, flatten and throw....one move.....I have said before that the barrel's inertia needs to be overcome before you see it move in more of an arc....before the arc path is the flattening - but it happens so quick you don't want to teach it in steps or you lose the arc part and create too sweepy of a barrel path....

As far as the bottom hand....yes it will flatten first as part of getting on plane....but imo it helps a hitter to think that she is just trying to backhand from the start to tighten everything up....once you move in fast motion you increase the amount of slop in the swing you need to control....hence hitters always working in taking the barrel down to the ball in tee work of dry swings.....

Well then, I think we're in agreement.

I don't know of anybody who said that flatten and then swing were two moves with some sort of pause in between. At least I've never said that. It is a flow, but the bat has to flatten before you take it at the ball.

 

[redhotcoach]

Well then, I think we're in agreement.

I don't know of anybody who said that flatten and then swing were two moves with some sort of pause in between. At least I've never said that. It is a flow, but the bat has to flatten before you take it at the ball.

y terms that is just flattening, and/or preparing to throw the barrel. The throw comes after the flattening.

Sorry. "The throw comes after after the flattening" just translated into 2 moves to me. Maybe flattening morphs? into throw.

 

[RayR]

Of course the bat has to flatten....it is my emphasis that all this is done with the hands being in control and not the body....which you might take to mean I want an arm swing....if you throw anything remotely well you need your body to work under you.....

Well then, I think we're in agreement.

I don't know of anybody who said that flatten and then swing were two moves with some sort of pause in between. At least I've never said that. It is a flow, but the bat has to flatten before you take it at the ball.

 

[pstein]

I'm fairly sure that I understand the part of the swing that you're describing, and if so, you made a couple of articulation errors, and since this is the "technical" forum, I'll correct.

The dropping of the rear elbow is mostly adduction of the rear humerus, but there is also a tiny bit of external rotation of the humerus as the MLB hitter tries to keep his top palm facing the pitcher as the elbow drops.

The action of the lead arm, simultaneous with the rear elbow drop is; some flexion of the humerus at the shoulder joint, combined with some supination of the lead forearm. There is little, if any, internal rotation of the lead humerus. There is; some horizontal adduction as the hands load back

Although the movements are the same in almost all MLB swings, the amount of lead arm flexion and supination, varies according to the hitter's style. Barry Bonds has much more flexion and supination during his movement to do as you describe, than Adrian Gonzalez, or Albert Pujols have.

I did not think that "turn the barrel" meant what you describe. I'd like to hear another advocate of "turn the barrel", point out where in the swing process, that it happens.

I don't need technical bio-mechanical terms. Just point out to me, the start and end point of the movement. Preferably with a marked up video.

To be complete about the articulations in the phase you describe; there is also elevation and adduction of the front scapula, and depression and protraction of the rear scapula.

Thank you for your corrections. I don't have the ability to mark up video, so I'll use an already marked up one.

This one of Ryan Howard works quite nicely:

The starting point of the "barrel turn" coincides with the frame just after "the back elbow drops quickly" frame occurs. The end of the action is the frame in which the shoulders have laterally tilted. From there, the barrel is turned to contact by torso rotation. There's no conscious attempt to make the bat go forward. This is why we see the "Power-L" position that some like to talk about, as well as the "shaft to shoulder" position.

 

[pstein]

I'm surprised at that. I thought the "turn the barrel" advocates were talking about the barrel arcing from above the head, toward the catcher.

What pstein describes is; IMO simply what Ted Williams called, "flattening the bat." It moves toward a relatively horizontal position as the back elbow drops. If what pstein describes is what other advocates mean, then, in my terms that is just flattening, and/or preparing to throw the barrel. The throw comes after the flattening.

Can you expand upon the bold?

 

[pstein]

So, IMO, he flattens the bat and then swings. He can check his swing after the flatten, or he can go. If he goes, it is a flow. There is no pause between flatten and swing. You are deciding on the pitch as you flatten, and if your decision is go, there is no stopping the flow. You go.

Yes, the bat gets flattened and swung simultaneously, if that makes any sense. Good hitters flatten it correctly, allowing them to have a longer decision window. However, there's more to it than just a flattening; the barrel is being accelerated behind the hitter, which is why we see high-level hitters taking a pitch in a different way from a lower level one.

Watch this Bautista clip, courtesy of Tewks:

Notice how the bat is accelerating behind him, allowing for deeper contact and a much shorter swing. The speed is behind him, allowing him to check his swing very late into the process.

Now, watch this Bautista clip from his time with the Pirates:

Notice how the bat doesn't accelerate behind him, and how he's moving the hands forward to swing. This is a very long swing. There's no ability to adjust with this mechanic.

 

[redhotcoach]

Sorry. "The throw comes after after the flattening" just translated into 2 moves to me. Maybe flattening morphs? into throw.

AH changed my mind, I don't like that description. Turn the barrel fits well.

 

[pstein]

So it's just another word for a running start.

Methinks they are just renaming commonly-used terms so that they can charge for the thesaurus.

It's not another word for an upper body running start. The tip n' rip is a completely different concept. Turning the barrel involves flattening the bat so the leg can drive it to contact. This is not a style thing at all. This is an absolute.

Williams preaches being quick. You can't be quick if you don't turn the barrel.

 

[jbooth]

Sorry. "The throw comes after after the flattening" just translated into 2 moves to me. Maybe flattening morphs? into throw.

Two moves doesn't mean that there is a pause in between. There is no pause ANYWHERE in the swing, but there are a lot of different moves that occur. Some simultaneous and others in sequence.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Two moves doesn't mean that there is a pause in between. There is no pause ANYWHERE in the swing, but there are a lot of different moves that occur. Some simultaneous and others in sequence.

Very true, but the more of these moves you can describe in fewer steps, the simpler it is to comprehend, teach, and implement. KISS