Title IX lawsuit: Lake Oswego, OR

[marriard]

Weak argument or not, it's rooted in pragmatism. We both want the same thing, but filling the coffers of a law firm, or two, or three benefits the lawyers and takes money away from the very issue the plaintiffs are seeking to remedy.

I just re-read the article. It does say one family has "...complained about Title IX violations and/or “unfair treatment” of female student athletes “for years”, according to the lawsuit.", and they recently received a trite and unacceptable answer from unnamed "High School Officials". However, it doesn't give us the rest of the story. Real change in a school district can only be made through the school board, which is comprised of elected officials, presumably accountable to their constituents. Half of the school population are female, so there should be plenty of support for change. The easy way out is to run off to attorney and clog up the courts with a lawsuit that could potentially be avoided.

The only point I was attempting to make is by building support within the community through success and strong lobbying efforts would result in lasting change. The lawsuit will only divide the community and drain precious resources. Legal action may be the only way to bring resolution to the problem, but it should be the avenue of last resort. I think you'll find most who have been involved in litigation will concur.

So in your view it is OK that the school built a huge baseball complex for the boys and have no plans to build anything for the girls. Where was the concern for 'draining precious resources' when this was going up? Oh wait, there wasn't because you know... boys sports.

Most of these cases there was plenty of lobbying from the girls side but a) most people are only there for four years so administrations just wait people out 2) there is no incentive to change unless there is some threat hanging over and 3) the less privileged are worried about retribution from the people who control the money - and rightly so - one local case involved death threats because they couldn't let the school install a $1M score board for football when all their other sports couldn't even get uniforms.

This is what happens all the time. This is not a rare event. This is the story in the majority of these cases and in way too many cases that should be.

How long are the girls meant to wait? Another 40 years? Locally one program was promised a re-done softball field, proper dugouts and a set of bleachers for fans for the last 10 years. In that time - new baseball field, new football field (plus stands, scoreboard, lockers and weight room (which only entrance was THROUGH THE BOYS LOCKER ROOM), lights for the boys soccer field (but not the girls) and the movement of 75% of girls sports to mid-week nights to allow more boys games on 'prime' nights). Last year they finally got their Title IX complaint in and scheduled... And surprise, surprise... new softball field broke ground last month and the lights on the girls soccer field are going up in summer.

Title IX cases makes the school board care. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to act - so they won't.

 

[JoeKC]

So in your view it is OK that the school built a huge baseball complex for the boys and have no plans to build anything for the girls. Where was the concern for 'draining precious resources' when this was going up? Oh wait, there wasn't because you know... boys sports.

Most of these cases there was plenty of lobbying from the girls side but a) most people are only there for four years so administrations just wait people out 2) there is no incentive to change unless there is some threat hanging over and 3) the less privileged are worried about retribution from the people who control the money - and rightly so - one local case involved death threats because they couldn't let the school install a $1M score board for football when all their other sports couldn't even get uniforms.

This is what happens all the time. This is not a rare event. This is the story in the majority of these cases and in way too many cases that should be.

How long are the girls meant to wait? Another 40 years? Locally one program was promised a re-done softball field, proper dugouts and a set of bleachers for fans for the last 10 years. In that time - new baseball field, new football field (plus stands, scoreboard, lockers and weight room (which only entrance was THROUGH THE BOYS LOCKER ROOM), lights for the boys soccer field (but not the girls) and the movement of 75% of girls sports to mid-week nights to allow more boys games on 'prime' nights). Last year they finally got their Title IX complaint in and scheduled... And surprise, surprise... new softball field broke ground last month and the lights on the girls soccer field are going up in summer.

Title IX cases makes the school board care. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to act - so they won't.

Did you read what I wrote? Painting the entire world with one very broad brush is interesting, but rarely accomplishes much...

 

[marriard]

Did you read what I wrote? Painting the entire world with one very broad brush is interesting, but rarely accomplishes much...

Yes I read what you wrote. The school boards don't care if they are not made to care. They might be 'accountable to their constituents' but the reality is most people do not know who is on the board or what the issues even are. Nor for the most part do they care unless it effects them directly.

I believe the list is now 200-300 Title IX cases in this area that all read much the same and no one really knows how many got settled outside court because of the success of these suits. Title IX and cases like these are accomplishing a huge amount... And it is producing long lasting effects - so far it has taken over 40 years, but without it, nothing would have substantially changed from when it was introduced.

For example - all of a sudden Lake Oswego Senior High School has suddenly decided to start making improvements in the 'next few weeks' to the softball fields.

Coincidence? I think not?

BTW - what the boys get on campus:

 

[John T]

JoeKC,

Lawyers have very little to do with it on both sides. The Officer of Civil Rights (OCR) will look at a specific complaint to see if it has merit and come to the school and investigate talking to all coaches, players from all the teams, administrators etc. They look into the entire athletic program not just softball and could find issues with other facilities, locker rooms equipment, practice times etc. If they find merit they send their findings to the district in question and ask that the district either fix the issue or it will go to court (Team or person who made the complaint is not involved and the government lawyers take over). All of the cases I have read have been settled before it goes to court because of the cost to that particular district is high in both money and how the public views them.

I disagree that it is a bad way of doing things, if all other avenues have been exhausted. In my opinion the softball team was only team totally forgotten when they build the above facility because all other outdoor sports were included (Football, baseball, boys and girls soccer and boys and girls track) and it looks to me that they had plenty of room on their campus to build a softball field. The complaint is fixing what should have been taken care of in the fist place...

 

[John T]

Tell me what is missing in this photo?

 

[sluggers]

I filed two complaints against the school district for Title IX violations. The complaints were with the Office of Civil Rights, not in federal court. Of course, I talked to the school about the problems before I filed the complaints.

CASE I: Soccer team

The school district had 8 middle schools. Each middle school had a 7th and 8th grade "co-ed" soccer team. The coaches allocated three spots on a twenty player roster for girls. The other 17 players were boys. Each middle school also had 7th grade *AND* 8th grade football teams.

The school's response was to my complaint was, believe it or not, "Girls don't really want to play sports." That was remarkable, since the city's park district had one of the largest rec K-8 soccer programs in the country. (If you live in a burb, you probably know better than venture to a city park on a fall Saturday morning lest you are run over by a 10YOA girl with a bag of oranges.)

So, the school district did a survey and found that girls had a higher interest in playing sports than boys. So, the result was that the school district started 7th and 8th grade girls soccer teams.

CASE II: Softball fields

I didn't do anything while my kids were playing. The softball field did not have dugouts, and the baseball field did. The baseball field had a fence. The softball field did not. And on and on and on. It was, like the Oregon situation, blatant discrimination. The school district said, "No one complained before, so there is no problem." Of course, I filed the complaint and after a few months, the dugouts were built.

The reality of girls sports is that only the parents and the kids really care. Like it or not, the gym is full for boys basketball games and empty for girls games. The football stadium is packed for every home game. There is no external impetus for change other than parents.

School districts are not going to do anything about the inequality unless parents and kids do something.

 

[reagansdaddy]

I have to say we were lucky at my DD's HS the girls sports were all treated fairly. I am grateful for that.

Same with my district. The athletic facilities are total crap for everyone!

 

[JoeKC]

Yes I read what you wrote. The school boards don't care if they are not made to care. They might be 'accountable to their constituents' but the reality is most people do not know who is on the board or what the issues even are. Nor for the most part do they care unless it effects them directly.

I believe the list is now 200-300 Title IX cases in this area that all read much the same and no one really knows how many got settled outside court because of the success of these suits. Title IX and cases like these are accomplishing a huge amount... And it is producing long lasting effects - so far it has taken over 40 years, but without it, nothing would have substantially changed from when it was introduced.

For example - all of a sudden Lake Oswego Senior High School has suddenly decided to start making improvements in the 'next few weeks' to the softball fields.

Coincidence? I think not?

BTW - what the boys get on campus:
View attachment 10178

Is there anywhere in my replies that would suggest that I believe the situation at Lake Oswego Senior High School has been, or is fair? Have I indicated that I believe the situation was/is acceptable? Did I suggest legal action is NEVER warranted?

Should we take arial photos of every HS athletic campus across the country and if anything is found to be "unequal", someone should immediately file suit?

Good grief. We all want the same thing but clogging up the courts and spending money on anything outside of the students/athletes unnecessarily would seem to me to be Plan B or maybe even Plan C rather than a starting tactic.

In my first post in this thread, I indicated our HS softball practice facilities are not up to the same standard as the baseball practice facilities. They aren't. However, they are more than acceptable, and better than most in the area. In my opinion, the baseball facilities are over the top, and were partially funded by non-taxpayer resources. The fact that those families that raised the money, and and people in the community that gave the money wanted to augment the funding of baseball facilities should not require the school board match that excess to "make it fair". Our softball fields have something the boys and their supporters can't buy.....Championship banners.

See not every school board has the mindset to "cheat" girls, and not every situation in the country is the same as Lake Oswego.

JoeKC,

Lawyers have very little to do with it on both sides. The Officer of Civil Rights (OCR) will look at a specific complaint to see if it has merit and come to the school and investigate talking to all coaches, players from all the teams, administrators etc. They look into the entire athletic program not just softball and could find issues with other facilities, locker rooms equipment, practice times etc. If they find merit they send their findings to the district in question and ask that the district either fix the issue or it will go to court (Team or person who made the complaint is not involved and the government lawyers take over). All of the cases I have read have been settled before it goes to court because of the cost to that particular district is high in both money and how the public views them.

I disagree that it is a bad way of doing things, if all other avenues have been exhausted. In my opinion the softball team was only team totally forgotten when they build the above facility because all other outdoor sports were included (Football, baseball, boys and girls soccer and boys and girls track) and it looks to me that they had plenty of room on their campus to build a softball field. The complaint is fixing what should have been taken care of in the fist place...

John, I appreciate the additional infomration about the process, and am very happy most of these cases can be resolved "out of court". You and I will have to disagree on the order in which efforts should be made. Staying out of the courts and resolving problems locally will always be my first choice.

View attachment 10179

Tell me what is missing in this photo?

No one is arguing there should not be a softball field in that photo. I hope there is one very soon.

 

[JJsqueeze]

You clearly don't like lawyers and have some ideological issues with filing suits. I get it, I share this sentiment a bit, but the mechanism is there for a reason. Especially with government entities like a school or school board, the power structure can get really entrenched and a lawsuit or threat of a lawsuit is really the only language they understand. They hear so many complaints all year that they often become deaf to valid ones and ride the status quo too long. They live in a world of red tape and bureaucracy so often times the only language they understand is legal language that says that they are in violation of a law, then they hop to attention, until then you can be just another parent complaining about something they feel is fine as is.
I am in a situation right now where we requested a transfer and the local high school is denying it. I spoke with them and told them that I want my kids to go to a neighboring school because of the 4X4 college prep program that they do not offer, they told me to pound sand. They said the same thing to a bunch of kids that want to do the same thing. We have a dad/lawyer about to file a complaint based on NCLB and I expect them to release all the kids shortly thereafter.

 

[JoeKC]

You clearly don't like lawyers and have some ideological issues with filing suits. I get it, I share this sentiment a bit, but the mechanism is there for a reason. Especially with government entities like a school or school board, the power structure can get really entrenched and a lawsuit or threat of a lawsuit is really the only language they understand. They hear so many complaints all year that they often become deaf to valid ones and ride the status quo too long. They live in a world of red tape and bureaucracy so often times the only language they understand is legal language that says that they are in violation of a law, then they hop to attention, until then you can be just another parent complaining about something they feel is fine as is.
I am in a situation right now where we requested a transfer and the local high school is denying it. I spoke with them and told them that I want my kids to go to a neighboring school because of the 4X4 college prep program that they do not offer, they told me to pound sand. They said the same thing to a bunch of kids that want to do the same thing. We have a dad/lawyer about to file a complaint based on NCLB and I expect them to release all the kids shortly thereafter.

It would appear you did what you could to resolve your very specific situation and will not likely get the same kind of broad "community support" like a Title IX situation. You still have options and should pursue them if you feel that is what is right for your family. I actually don't dislike lawyers any more or less than any other profession, but I do think we overuse attorneys and the courts when other more pragmatic, less costly solutions are available. Sometimes legal action is needed, and when that happens, I want the very best lawyer I can find on my side, and I want fight to be as one-sided as possible in my favor.