Title IX lawsuit: Lake Oswego, OR

[JoeKC]

If the schools don't like it then they can become private schools, pretty sure privates are exempt. However, as long as they are taking public money (my money included) they have to adhere to treating everyone fairly. Why should my daughter be given substandard treatment that your son doesn't get when we both are contributing t the funds the school draws from.

I am a conservative and fully support the rights of private business, however if you want to swim in the public pond expect to follow public rules and treat everyone as an equal.

Define "Fair"...... and then please define equal.

BTW....I have no sons, only daughters.

 

[marriard]

Define "Fair"......

BTW....I have no sons, only daughters.

Fortunately fair has been clearly defined in Title IX. It is really well done and had proven really easy to apply in an intelligent way.

I think the best part is that they define "Comparable" while avoiding trying to enforce equal.

Some of the cases that have gone through the whole process were unbelievable (one school made THREE new fields plus facilities for the baseball team (primarily with city funds), required the softball team to use a PE field when it wasn't in use and disallowed the team from using any of the new facilities.

 

[mogsoftball]

Define "Fair"...... and then please define equal.

BTW....I have no sons, only daughters.

I don't have to define fair Title IX does, and Title IX applies because it is a public school taking public money.

 

[JoeKC]

So the takeaways from this discussion, is that if you want the tools to become successful, you must first be a winner.

And my daughter should be treated fairly compared to the boy that sits across the isle in math as long as there is no dollar amount attached. Because others don't value the sport she plays she should just accept her place.

So is your definition of fair measured in $$ spent per athlete? In our HS there were more than 75 baseball players trying out for baseball and there were approximately 25 softball players wanting a slot on our HS teams this season. The softball program fielded two teams, while the baseball program fielded four teams (Varsity, JV, Sophomore and Freshman teams). If fair equals $$/athlete and the school spends $250 (completely made up number) per, then the baseball program has $18,750 to spend and the softball program has $6,250 to spend.

Should the facilities reflected that disparity in participation as well? If the softball program has $1,000,000 in facility assets, should the baseball team have $3,000,000 in assets? If that is not fair then would it be fair if both programs have $12,500 to spend this year and both have $2,000,000 facilities?

I've been on a number of college campuses where the baseball stadium has many more seats than the softball stadium. Is that fair? Do we equalize the programs by making sure there is the same number of seats in the stands and benches are equal lengths in the dugouts?

No. Anyone that could impartially watch the story and not have an issue probably doesn't belong on a girls softball forum.

I don't think anyone here has stipulated they beleive the Lake Oswego program was fair and didn't need to be fixed, but the business of "Fair" and "Equal" is always more challenging, and less definitive than most believe.

This is an easy fix. Swap facilities, convert the baseball field to softball, send the boys to the junior high field. I'm sure no tears will be shed. This is one time I support the legal process.

And fire the idiot from the school that made the comment about championships justifying better treatment.

Interesting. The former would certainly drive the point home, and I agree whole-heartedly with your last statement.. He should be fired.

 

[marriard]

So is your definition of fair measured in $$ spent per athlete? In our HS there were more than 75 baseball players trying out for baseball and there were approximately 25 softball players wanting a slot on our HS teams this season. The softball program fielded two teams, while the baseball program fielded four teams (Varsity, JV, Sophomore and Freshman teams). If fair equals $$/athlete and the school spends $250 (completely made up number) per, then the baseball program has $18,750 to spend and the softball program has $6,250 to spend.

Should the facilities reflected that disparity in participation as well? If the softball program has $1,000,000 in facility assets, should the baseball team have $3,000,000 in assets? If that is not fair then would it be fair if both programs have $12,500 to spend this year and both have $2,000,000 facilities?

I've been on a number of college campuses where the baseball stadium has many more seats than the softball stadium. Is that fair? Do we equalize the programs by making sure there is the same number of seats in the stands and benches are equal lengths in the dugouts?

Yes this has all been covered in Title IX. Your scenario above is not actually how it happen in these cases - it is not $$$ per athlete or anything similar often because there is large capital investment when you undertake facility establishment or upgrades. It has been over 40 years - most of the common scenarios have already played out in one way or another.

It is why they don't use 'Fair' or 'Equal' - they use Comparable. They also have procedures to determine what a comparable level is which includes (but is not limited to) surveys, participation, opportunities, coaching levels, facility access, game times, analysis of tryouts, etc, etc. It is very comprehensive. They also account for costs of running a sport (for example differing cost of uniforms and equipment for various sports) and other factors.

 

[marriard]

.... but the business of "Fair" and "Equal" is always more challenging, and less definitive that most believe.

Again.. not 'Fair' and not 'Equal' which imply that everything is the same - the key word is - "Comparable" which allows a much greater number of defined factors to come into play.

 

[smddad]

ABC NEWS has now done a story on it. New information I have read in this story says, "A parent began complaining to the Lake Oswego School District about the alleged gender discrimination in 2014, the release says. A "substantial donation" was made to build a hitting facility for the softball team later that year, but was never built because the funds were reallocated to another sport this past February, according to the release.

On the surface, this case looks pretty egregious. It's unfortunate for the girls at this school. My DD is fortunate that both facilities are top notch at her school. Especially compared to some of the schools they travel too. While the baseball team won a state championship a decade ago, the girls have made the state tournament 7 out of the last 8 years. Believe it or not, it's their football team that has the worst facility. That is until the community votes to pass a bond to build stands at their new, lighted, turf practice field. :/

 

[indianafp]

Our HS was updating the FB field and the BB Field, so one day at my DS football practice I asked one of the school board members about the Softball Field. He said, and I quote, "We didn't plan on doing anything to the field or the facilities." All I did was ask on question, Who is the Title IX director for my county. He had this look on his face like "uh what?" I repeated the question. He said, I'll find out and call you. So about 3 days later I got a call, he said, there has been a change and there will be a all new upgrades to the softball fields. Hmmm.....I wonder why? ;-) And guess what. They did.

 

[softgabby]

I don't know how the whole Title IX thing works...so I really can't comment about that. But I do know that right now our school's football, basketball, soccer and baseball teams have better facilities than we have. Our football team has been fairly successful. Our soccer teams are good. Our baseball team is OK (I'm not saying that just because my brother plays for them). Plus our boys basketball team is good and our girls won the state title not too many years ago. Also our wrestling team's a beast. But our softball team gets to play at the softball field at the community park. We don't have an indoor practice facility, hitting range or a decent field and it gets torn up from the different beer and fire leagues that play on that field. We however get to move to our new home on campus next season where were supposed to have a good new field to play on along with some decent facilities for while it's still cold out this winter where we can hit and practice.

 

[YOCOACH]

I don't know how the whole Title IX thing works...so I really can't comment about that. But I do know that right now our school's football, basketball, soccer and baseball teams have better facilities than we have. Our football team has been fairly successful. Our soccer teams are good. Our baseball team is OK (I'm not saying that just because my brother plays for them). Plus our boys basketball team is good and our girls won the state title not too many years ago. Also our wrestling team's a beast. But our softball team gets to play at the softball field at the community park. We don't have an indoor practice facility, hitting range or a decent field and it gets torn up from the different beer and fire leagues that play on that field. We however get to move to our new home on campus next season where were supposed to have a good new field to play on along with some decent facilities for while it's still cold out this winter where we can hit and practice.

You are both young enough and old enough to learn a very valuable lesson here. If something affects you, your wants, needs and concerns, read the legislation that does so. You may not understand every legalezed word in it, but you will understand enough to make an informed decision 90% of the time. Just like when it comes time to vote for the president in 4 years. Go and visit the candidates website and make an informed decision. Don't base your vote on a 30 second defamation of character advertisement because you're too busy living your life like most of America..