Tincher/Hillhouse

[starsnuffer]

Tell you what, since this thread isn't going anywhere, lets do this. I'm going to do this because while I have a great deal of admiration for Mr. Hillhouse, I don't necessarily agree with everything he has to say. My point is, I'm not a blind fan, but an appreciative critic.

Here's four free-to-find videos from a clinic Bill Hillhouse did at this years SoftballCon. Watch them to get an idea of what Bill teaches. I've also posted whatever I could find of Denny Tincher. Watch them to get an idea of what he is teaching. I can't link the videos directly due to the 1 video per post site limit and I don't have the time to wait for the post timer to add 8 posts right now. Click the links.

Compare and contrast.

Bill Hillhouse: (BTW you can get all of these at Fastpitch.tv episodes 196-199 in better quality without the youtube ads)

Pitching Clinic Part 1 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 2 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 3 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 4 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube


Denny Tincher:

Pitch Analysis - Denny Tincher - YouTube
Softball Screwball Analysis - YouTube

-W

 

[dadof7]

Tell you what, since this thread isn't going anywhere, lets do this. I'm going to do this because while I have a great deal of admiration for Mr. Hillhouse, I don't necessarily agree with everything he has to say. My point is, I'm not a blind fan, but an appreciative critic.

Here's four free-to-find videos from a clinic Bill Hillhouse did at this years SoftballCon. Watch them to get an idea of what Bill teaches. I've also posted whatever I could find of Denny Tincher. Watch them to get an idea of what he is teaching. I can't link the videos directly due to the 1 video per post site limit and I don't have the time to wait for the post timer to add 8 posts right now. Click the links.

Compare and contrast.

Bill Hillhouse: (BTW you can get all of these at Fastpitch.tv episodes 196-199 in better quality without the youtube ads)

Pitching Clinic Part 1 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 2 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 3 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube
Pitching Clinic Part 4 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube


Denny Tincher:

Pitch Analysis - Denny Tincher - YouTube
Softball Screwball Analysis - YouTube

-W

As a follow on Gary Leland at fastpitch.tv responed that he also recorded the second session that Bill references in episodes 198 & 199. He said that they still need to be edited and won't be available as new episodes for a couple of months.

 

[Dusty]

I really don't know what Tincher teaches but his daughter was a great pitcher. This fluidity stuff is probably reasonable because who wants a pitcher that doesn't have a fluid motion? Having said that we have no information on him or his teaching. What I have heard is that he says that females should be taught differently. I disagree with that as I know Hillhouse does.

He doesn't say female pitchers should be taught to pitch differently, just that there are differences in the male and female body that women should take advantage of when pitching. One of the things I remember him mentioning in our first lesson with him was that female bones have more flexibility than male bones so while a male pitcher & coach may emphasize acceleration from the 3 o'clock position to release he would emphasize a more constant arm speed throghout the arm circle to release to get more of a whip like effect.

Other than the Hillhouse videos, newsletters and posts in this forum I don't have any personal first hand experience with his teaching style but I think the differences between him and Denny would amount to what he refers to in his first video as "style" differences rather than "mandatory" things. Also, and I don't mean to imply anything negative by typing this, there is a fair amount of marketing associated with Fluid Dynamics. A business person can market themselves any way they want and the results of their labor will ultimately speak for itself. I plan to frequent the Fluid Dynamics store again just as I'm sure I'll go back to the House of Pitching and wouldn't hesitate to sign up for a Hillhouse clinic if he ever came to our area. It would be nice to have the OP chime in again since he's had personal experience with both.

 

[CoachFP]

I hate to sound combative but the more flexible bone business sounds way too far out there for me. So not accelerating the arm is better for girls because their more limber bones will do the job instead? I am sure there is a lot of science to support that position.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I want DD to bat like M.Cabrera, catch like J.Bench, throw to 1st like D.Concepcion, and the new exception is make contact like K.Kretschman... only thing I want her to slap is boys, and as hard as her mother...

 

[starsnuffer]

I hate to sound combative but the more flexible bone business sounds way too far out there for me. So not accelerating the arm is better for girls because their more limber bones will do the job instead? I am sure there is a lot of science to support that position.

First of all, I've not heard Hillhouse use the "accelerate late in the pitch" concept, though I may have missed something. So I'm not sure this is even a valid comparison.

I will say that I agree that when teaching girls, "start fast and stay fast" has had better results then "accelerate through the pitch". I think that this is as much, if not more so, a mental difference then a physical difference, however. When I used to teach girls to accelerate through the pitch, I found that they would try to "muscle" the pitch towards the end. They'd raise their shoulders, torque their hip, and do all sorts of "bad" things to try to force the pitch to happen.

Now, we all know that, due to arm whip, the pitch does indeed accelerate towards the end. In order for whip to happen, mechanics need to be sound and the body loose and limber. I'm not debating what actually happens, but rather teaching queues.

I've found that when girls start with a great load and explosive stride using both legs to push, then using both hands and their stride foot to propel towards the catcher, they (the pitcher) automatically puts the correct effort into the rest of their mechanics and the pitch "happens". If I try to tell them to accelerate through the pitch, what they will actually do is start softer and then try to force the pitch halfway through (usually on the downswing). This is not the goal we're trying to accomplish, thus I found that teaching queue does not work.

Now, with boys, we muscle everything, so telling us to accelerate isn't going to effect us one way or another, because we're already doing it. I imagine "relax" is a much harder concept with boys.

Again, I think it's mental. I don't think that it is some muscular or skeletal deficiency that keeps girls from being able to accelerate later, I just think it's how their brains work that differs.

-W

 

[CoachFP]

I don't believe Hillhouse teaches accelerate late in the pitch. I believe what he (and I ) teach is to snap the elbow at the conclusion of the pitch getting the whip that is required. I do believe that the female brain is wired differently and maybe they need different queues to get them to do what boys can do naturally. That is more of a matter of getting inside their heads than explaining that there are physical differences other than the obvious one regarding overall strength.

 

[inde53546]

I believe in the building a house video Hillhouse speaks of the down portion of the motion should be twice as fast as the up motion or something to that effect. i would have to review it, it's been a while. Either way it seems that both guys have things to offer in their video's much more than some of the other videos i've watched with girls with pool noodles on their head, or girls slapping a plastic mat hung from some medevil device or the one set to benny hill music. My two cents, probably only worth one though.

 

[sluggers]

One of the things I remember him mentioning in our first lesson with him was that female bones have more flexibility than male bones so while a male pitcher

Let's hope you misquoted him...this is just junk science. Beyond that, his videos suggest that he is teaching correct mechanics.

 

[crystlemc]

Okay, my DD has never been to Tincher. She HAS been a Hillhouse student for weekly lessons for the last 3 years. I have NEVER heard him say anything about accelerating at any point in the arm circle. The goal is a smooth, fast arm circle. If you try to accelerate on the downward portion, you are only going to end up with a hitch in the circle and increase the likelihood of developing a replant.