- Sep 29, 2014
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I would agree it is mostly a style thing...but if all the other mechanics and timing are fine i would not try and change it either way.
Tincher Pitching w/o a backswing
- Thread starter JENJ5001
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I guess I misunderstood Denny's first email. Coming out of the glove is not allowed for tincher pitchers. Everything the tincher instructor I went to said about the backswing being needed for the glove block was true.
After further correspondence with Denny he wrote
"None of our Instructors is likely to go along with no backswing, but may be able to help her understand and love it. There is a lot of science behind it that few others understand. I have seen dozens of kids, even D1 kids, change it and absolutely love it. Nobody ever wanted to go back. Wish I could be near and coach her through it because I see some glove side breakdowns it creates."
I can't find any PC that supports I/R. It's so discouraging. Just went to another one tonight that saw where my daughter's hand was facing at 3 oclock and tried to teach her to turn her hand palm down at 3. Then when he saw her follow through was more palm down, He thought she was throwing the turnover drop because her wrist was internally rotated
This pitching coach was supposed to have coached several girls that went d1 and was $40 for 20 minutes
After further correspondence with Denny he wrote
"None of our Instructors is likely to go along with no backswing, but may be able to help her understand and love it. There is a lot of science behind it that few others understand. I have seen dozens of kids, even D1 kids, change it and absolutely love it. Nobody ever wanted to go back. Wish I could be near and coach her through it because I see some glove side breakdowns it creates."
I can't find any PC that supports I/R. It's so discouraging. Just went to another one tonight that saw where my daughter's hand was facing at 3 oclock and tried to teach her to turn her hand palm down at 3. Then when he saw her follow through was more palm down, He thought she was throwing the turnover drop because her wrist was internally rotated
This pitching coach was supposed to have coached several girls that went d1 and was $40 for 20 minutes
Fluid dynamics is essentially IR.
Yes, correct which is why I was happy I found it, but they do not support out of the glove delivery. My daughter does not want to change that about her pitching. She tried it for 4 lessons. Since it seems to be style choice and she is the one pitching not me, I don't want to control that.
Not questioning Denny Tincher but I wonder what he does if a kid is inconsistent with her backswing? Away from body or swings a little behind her back. We started out with Hillhouse tapes and then our PC promotes not bringing the ball back. DD tried a backswing once for about 10 pitches and said I hate this. Timing was all wrong and couldn't throw it close to the plate. Not planning on trying it again.
Denny knows a lot more about softball than me.
Denny knows a lot more about softball than me.
Yes, what I think I am getting from looking at a lot of other posts on DP, especially the post on this thread from sluggers, is that all the great Pitching coaches like Denny, Pauly, Hillhouse, Java, boardmember ect, all have or teach the same absolutes that make a recipe for success. The half of a percent difference is some may teach optionals/preferences as absolutes. Like for instance, what Sluggers said about closing after release. The absolute is that all good pitchers have their hips angled at around 45 degrees at release, the preference is that some sucessful pitchers stay open at release and some close more; Ueno closes more than tincher allows after release but is still successful. It doesn't hurt pitchers if their PC teaches preferences as absolutes as long as they are making sure to teach all the absolutes. Sluggers post really put things in perspective for me. I am thankful he replied.
My 2 cents for what it's worth. My 18 yo (now retired) DD has been to 3 pitching coaches in her pitching career (9-17). Bill Hillhouse was her second to last one (yes, in person instruction), Bill's reason for "no backswing" was to hide the ball from the 3rd base coach and the batter for as long as possible. As far as the leg slap, she did that too. After approximately 10 years of fastpitch coaching and being a bucket dad I have started to give beginning pitcher lessons to local pitchers. If your DD is producing enough speed/power without the backswing, live her alone, don't introduce a backswing to a pitcher that doesn't need one. The leg slap is a timing mechanism, if she can develop that will help. From what it sounds like you may need to find another instructor. The one thing I've learned coaching youth sports is no 2 players will do the same exact thing. Basically and good coach/instructor will hit the keys points of a player's motion to make sure she doesn't get injured and to help her improve. Is she pitching with pain? If so something isn't right. Is she accurate? If not something isn't right. Is she improving with this new coach, if so give her a chance...
Actually Tincher teaches a 55 degree hip angle at release so 45 degrees is not an absolute.
that is a good point
I'm not sure how far along the Tincher journey you are (i.e. how many lessons you've had), but for us we did the glove slam on the pre at first, but it's much less emphasized now. Perhaps that's just a foundational piece that is used in the first many lessons.
Now we still work on the glove hand a lot. Almost more than I think is needed. However, in our lesson a few days ago when she got the glove right several other things fell in line. It was kind of eye-opening, for everyone but the PC.
