Tincher Pitching w/o a backswing

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Jun 16, 2019
38
8
Hello, I am new here and was hoping some for some expert advice.
My daughter is 10u and was taught HE in the beginning. We stopped going to that PC and went solo for a while with help from this site and hillhouse dvds. We switched to I/R and got rid of dd backswing. DD was during great throwing between 42 and 45mph with great accuracy. Recently started looking for a new pitching coach that supported I/R and found a tincher certified instructor. We liked everything that they were teaching seemed to be in agreement with the trusted advice on this site. except for maintaining a 55 degree angle with no closing. Hillhouse teaches the hips close after arm circle is through hips. Also, new pitching coach says that starting the motion at hip (like hillhouse) would disrupt the tincher form (staying stacked over hips) bringing glove hand to the hip with ball hand would shift the shoulders. She wants to add the swingback back and says it is an absolute to keep proper tincher form. Also she said all the girls need to glove block and you cant glove block without a swing back. ( glove block : slapping thigh with glove when ball hand is swung back. DD is struggling to add swingback back

Are there any Tincher pitchers that do not have a backswing?
 
Last edited:
Mar 6, 2018
150
28
Hello, I am new here and was hoping some for some expert advice.
My daughter is 10u and was taught HE in the beginning. We stopped going to that PC and went solo for a while with help from this site and hillhouse dvds. We switched to I/R and got rid of dd backswing. DD was during great throwing between 42 and 45mph with great accuracy. Recently started looking for a new pitching coach that supported I/R and found a tincher certified instructor. We liked everything that they were teaching seemed to be in agreement with the trusted advice on this site. except for maintaining a 55 degree angle with no closing. Hillhouse teaches the hips close after arm circle is through hips. Also, new pitching coach says that starting the motion at hip (like hillhouse) would disrupt the tincher form (staying stacked over hips) bringing glove hand to the hip with ball hand would shift the shoulders. She wants to add the swingback back and says it is an absolute to keep proper tincher form. Also she said all the girls need to glove block and you cant glove block without a swing back. ( glove block : slapping thigh with glove when ball hand is swung back. DD is struggling to add swingback back

Are there any Tincher pitchers that do not have a swing back?

Is tincher the best?
Im far from an expert but denny only taught my dd a minimal backswing. Ball only goes slightly behind the back pocket or so. My daughter was rocking the ball way back and he insisted it was too much. His glove block work is critical. When my dd swings the glove out and doesn't finish above the hip correctly her shoulders rotate causing her to throw high and away from righties. Her 10u mind tells herself to dip the next pitch and slow the arm down in order to place the ball better. Bad glove block equals slower speeds.

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May 16, 2016
1,024
113
Illinois
I don't think I have ever seen a Tincher Pitcher that does not have a backswing. My daughter goes to a Tincher Instructor. There is a lot of timing in Tincher pitching that involves the backswing.

If you're going to continue to see the Tincher Instructor, I would do it her way. That is what you are paying for. Adding a backswing into her pitch should not be that difficult. Give it a couple of months and the backswing will feel natural.

There are a lot of pitching coaches that want pitchers to maintain the 45-55 degree position after the pitch.

Below is a video of another very respected pitching coach talking about maintaining the 45-55 degree position. Skip to the 7-minute mark for that part of the video.

Rich Balswick The Release Point - YouTube
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
@Hillhouse can clarify exactly what he does or does not teach.

We liked everything that they were teaching seemed to be in agreement with the trusted advice on this site. except for maintaining a 55 degree angle with no closing. Hillhouse teaches the hips close after arm circle is through hips.

For starters: There is only one correct method of pitching.

The good pitching coaches (Tincher, Hillhouse, Pauly, Boardmember, Java, Riseball, Sparky, Coach James, etc.) teach 99.95% (Ivory pure, if you will) the same thing. They sometimes use different terminology to describe the same thing. Tincher did not come down from Mt. Sinai with stone tablets described the "only way to pitch".

Anyway...on to the hips:

The questions you are asking are wrong. The real question is "how closed are the hips when the arm hits the hips during the release phase of the pitch".

This is Yukiko Ueno, possibly the greatest female softball pitcher ever. You can see her hip position at release, and then her hip position after release. The idea that Yukiko Ueno pitches incorrectly would be insane.

Some pitchers stay in a more open position after release. Some pitchers close after release. But, all good pitchers have their hips angled around 45 degrees during release.

14546


Also, new pitching coach says that starting the motion at hip (like hillhouse) would disrupt the tincher form (staying stacked over hips) bringing glove hand to the hip with ball hand would shift the shoulders.

Stacked over the hips? Disrupt the form? I'm really stupid...I don't have a clue what this means.

She wants to add the swingback back and says it is an absolute to keep proper tincher form. Also she said all the girls need to glove block and you cant glove block without a swing back. ( glove block : slapping thigh with glove when ball hand is swung back. DD is struggling to add swingback back

Adam Folkard, the best softball pitcher on the planet, doesn't have a backswing. Very few male pitchers use a swingback, so again it seems a little crazy to say it is an absolute.

The beginning of the pitching motion is to get the pitcher in proper position at 12. (See picture of Rachel Garcia).


14547
 
Sep 19, 2018
928
93
Stacked over the hips? Disrupt the form? I'm really stupid...I don't have a clue what this means.

My dd goes to a tincher so there might be a little bias on my part, but I read that as, "The method I teach has a back swing. This has worked for me and my students. I don't want to try and figure out what I'll have to do, change or re-learn to make your way work."
 
Jun 16, 2019
38
8
The questions you are asking are wrong. The real question is "how closed are the hips when the arm hits the hips during the release phase of the pitch".

This is Yukiko Ueno, possibly the greatest female softball pitcher ever. You can see her hip position at release, and then her hip position after release. The idea that Yukiko Ueno pitches incorrectly would be insane.

Some pitchers stay in a more open position after release. Some pitchers close after release. But, all good pitchers have their hips angled around 45 degrees during release.

Wow, this is awesome! Thank you!
Stacked over the hips? Disrupt the form? I'm really stupid...I don't have a clue what this means.
The PC described being stacked over hips as shoulders need to be inline with hips at release. If shoulders are leaning forward
at release then glutes cannot "fire" or properly activate.
Adam Folkard, the best softball pitcher on the planet, doesn't have a backswing. Very few male pitchers use a swingback, so again it seems a little crazy to say it is an absolute.

I looked up Adam Folkard. Thanks so much for the reference! My daughter's motion looks alot like Adam's except she doesnt leave ball in glove as long and close as much. I mentioned Hillhouse to the PC as someone who was successful that didnt use a backswing and she said that women and mens bodies are different and have different strengths. Men don't use swingbacks and girls do.

I found this video of an Alabama pitcher that looks to remain more open at release like tincher that doesnt use a swingback (my dd doesnt bring glove up above her head at premotion like this pitcher but keeps glove more at waist: Jackie Traina. Do you think her mechanics look sound?

 
Last edited:
Jun 7, 2018
10
3
Northwest Florida
Wow, this is awesome! Thank you!
The PC described being stacked over hips as shoulders need to be inline with hips at release. If shoulders are leaning forward
at release then glutes cannot "fire" or properly activate.

I looked up Adam Folkard. Thanks so much for the reference! My daughter's motion looks alot like Adam's except she doesnt leave ball in glove as long and close as much. I mentioned Hillhouse to the PC as someone who was successful that didnt use a backswing and she said that men and women's muscles that they use to pitch are different. Men don't use swingbacks and girls do.

I found this video of an Alabama pitcher that looks to remain more open at release like tincher that doesnt use a swingback (my dd doesnt bring glove up above her head at premotion like this pitcher but keeps glove more at waist: Jackie Traina. Do you think her mechanics look sound?



Just for reference, there are/have been several female pitchers that have succeeded at a high level without a back swing. Here are a few off the top off my head. Meghan King, Carly Hoover, Lacey Waldrop, Megan Kleist.

In fact, most of the FSU developed pitchers didn't use a back swing and that program has produced 7 All-Americans in a row. I believe the LSU pitchers did not use a back-swing this season either.
 
Mar 6, 2018
150
28
Wow, this is awesome! Thank you!
The PC described being stacked over hips as shoulders need to be inline with hips at release. If shoulders are leaning forward
at release then glutes cannot "fire" or properly activate.

I looked up Adam Folkard. Thanks so much for the reference! My daughter's motion looks alot like Adam's except she doesnt leave ball in glove as long and close as much. I mentioned Hillhouse to the PC as someone who was successful that didnt use a backswing and she said that women and mens bodies are different and have different strengths. Men don't use swingbacks and girls do.

I found this video of an Alabama pitcher that looks to remain more open at release like tincher that doesnt use a swingback (my dd doesnt bring glove up above her head at premotion like this pitcher but keeps glove more at waist: Jackie Traina. Do you think her mechanics look sound?

When you say backswing are you meaning the glove going up, over, and behind head. Or the point when the glove comes down with the ball and ball hand as the ball goes back.

You mentioned glove doesn't go over head and that is correct, Tincher doesn't recommend that. He also didn't recommend leaning the body in a rock back.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
Backswing IMO is style. Now how much backswing you use will impact your timing and you have to make sure you are still using good drive and arm circle mechanics but the backswing isn't really part of that. One of the videos you will see us use a lot on this site is Amanda Scarbourough video the video is crystal clear and she has REALLY good technique, but the first disclaimer we usually throw in there is please disregard the backswing, it's not that it couldn't work its just not typical and you are showing the ball to Coach Walton so he can yell at his hitters what is coming....my two cents from a non pitching coach
 
Jun 16, 2019
38
8
When you say backswing are you meaning the glove going up, over, and behind head. Or the point when the glove comes down with the ball and ball hand as the ball goes back.
when the ball hand goes behind back. This Tincher instructor requires what she calls a glove block. That is when ball swings behind back, glove should openly hit stride leg thigh. She likes to hear it, says if she can' hear it, it doesnt exist. The glove hand doesnt extent towards catcher fully but keeps slightly bent more tucked into body; supposed to be relaxed more pulled into side. This is to keep the glove hand under control.. The strange thing is in the tincher video it doesnt show the the girls slamming the glove down on the swing back but does show all the girls keeping their gloves closer to their bodies and glove does not extent towards catcher fully. However, I recieved a PM from a member that has a tincher student and she sent me a video of daughter that also slams glove to thigh on swingback. (when I say slammed into thigh, glove is open so it doesnt hurt)
 

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