Tincher Pitching w/o a backswing
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I'm not certain why or how the backswing became so prevalent in the womens game.......the only explanation I can sign up for is that girls like rythm and the backswing certainly is rythmic. When teaching a young lady I try to find the pre-motion they are most comfortable with......until they prove it is not allowing them to be efficient. I have converted several pitchers over from a backswing to a traditional "mens out-of-glove (OOG)style" pre-motion. In every case the young lady threw equal or faster speed, improved her location accuracy dramatically, improved her spin axis, and eliminated the potential for the opposing team to pick her pitches. The conversion to the OOG style can be relatively easily accomplished.....sometimes in less than a week. I believe you will see an increasing number of pitchers using the OOG style.....especially with the increased pitch picking prevalent in college softball.
For someone to suggest that a backswing is an absolute is pretty difficult to comprehend. There is too much evidence to show any number of pre-motions can provide excellent results. The pre-motion should not be a "one size fits all" option.
For someone to suggest that a backswing is an absolute is pretty difficult to comprehend. There is too much evidence to show any number of pre-motions can provide excellent results. The pre-motion should not be a "one size fits all" option.
Every PC has their own philosophy. Some of it may be grounded in fact while other parts of it may be Voodoo. That's true with almost any teacher. They have their own methods and beliefs. Some PC's teach OOG only while knowing that Men and Women are biologically different in regards to upper body strength. Is that wrong or just a different way to build a mousetrap?
- Mar 28, 2016
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It could be marketing too. If all the Tincher kids use the glove block and pitch like clones of each other, then it becomes recognizable.
- Feb 5, 2018
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I have two daughters pitching with a Tincher instructor. They’re not really big on marketing and I can tell you that nothing is done simply for differentiation. We’ve only been doing for a year but I can tell you that every move is based in science/physics and is another reason that their curriculum has evolved and is always evolving.
They’ve not ever emphasized a certain backswing with my girls, but like other high level coaches they understand the importance of the hips and core and how they are the engine of speed/velocity. Some amount of arm swing is natural and helpful to generating forward movement, Glove block allows pitching arm to travel loosely and freely.
I second this. Since my last response we've seen denny again and the back swing is minimized. Helps her get get legs going and pushing out because she can get her arm rotation going and catching back up. In other words for my daughter too much swing causes her arm to get around too fast before the legs. This causes her upper body to be ahead and timing off. She will throw high to the left and twist upper body because it's so early
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- Aug 21, 2008
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I can tell you why Rick... because it's only been in recent years that girls have begun to even THINK about picking or reading pitchers. The concept of being picked and needing to hide the ball hasn't been an issue until quite recently. This isn't meant as sexist, just a fact: as more and more male FP players enter the female side of the game (college coaches, coaching daughters, etc) they have brought this influence of the men's game with them. I was amazed this year at throwing BP to a Division 1 college team how many girls said (in BATTING PRACTICE) that they struggled picking up the ball from me. This was not because I was trying to blitz a riseball by them. On the contrary. But not allowing them to see it, focus their eyes on the release point, and hit off a "familiar motion" made them seriously struggle. I don't want to come off as an elitist here but, many here do not understand the men's major fastpitch world. Picking the pitcher is about the only way you're gonna hit an 85mph riseball from Adam Folkard. And it's not uncommon for us to wear sleeves even in 100 degrees. Why? Because hitters will read our forearm muscles, looking for twitches on particular grips to see what's coming. Yes, I'm being 100% serious. I have about 500 shirts with my left arm cut off and only a long sleeve on my pitching arm to hide my forearm.
I do not know Mr. Tincher, I've heard he's a very nice man. But anyone who confuses the "absolutes" and styles in pitching needs to give their head a shake. And no, I'm not saying Mr Tincher is confusing the 2 things!!!!!!! I have no knowledge of what he teaches. Backswing is a style, not an absolute. There are 3, potentially 4 reasons I don't like it. First: You show the ball and grip you have to the batter. A hitter paying attention will see it and know what's coming. When a hitter knows the pitch, that's 1/2 the battle. Second: MAJORITY (not all, relax people) of pitchers who swing their arm back have bad habits of locking the elbow. This taxes the shoulder heavily and doesn't allow for the whip necessary in the pitch. Third: perhaps most important, if you were to jump as high as possible in the air,, would you swing ONE arm back for momentum or 2? To go your highest, you'd use 2. So, why only swing one arm backwards? That negates 1/2 of the body (glove side) as the majority of pitchers stop their glove at their belt when they swing backwards. If you INSIST on swinging your arm back, you should make the glove follow the ball behind you so BOTH arms use a negative movement to increase power on the positive movement forward. This will also aid in helping to conceal the ball. If showing the ball to hitters, locking the elbow and only using 1/2 the body isn't enough.... Forth: pitchers who have a massive swim with the glove hand do so because their hands separate early. If the hands are together pushing forward, the glove doesn't have a chance to swim. I realize that not every pitcher who swings back has a swim... but every pitcher that has a swim does the swingback!! Like my grandmother would say: All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles.
Oh yea... to the poster who mentioned me to their coach and was given the position of: Men are different than women comment.... No kidding? We're different? I haven't had a date in a while but maybe they can explain how?? LOL. Next time you hear that argument ask the coach this question: why are girls taught to throw overhand the same as boys? Do softball shortstops throw different than baseball? No. why do they swing their bats the same as boys? Run bases the same as boys? We're "so different" in softball pitching only? Gimme a break. Did you ever see me in my youth? I was a stick. Couldn't gain weight if I tried... and I tried with wings and budlight I guarantee Lisa Fernandez could beat me at arm wrestling and/or squat more than me. This isn't a gender thing. It's not about who has the biggest muscles or else Arnold Schwarzenegger would've been the best pitcher ever. There are plenty of male pitchers who do not throw as hard as some females do. But there are no females who throw as hard as the top males do. Why? Muscle? Strength? Perhaps to a degree. Sure men are stronger and can muscle it but that doesn't mean they're pitching correctly or with sound mechanics. And they likely get injured a lot. Folkard gets injured a lot FYI. Personally, I think it has to do with the top echelon females reaching a point when they have to unlearn the BS things they were taught in their youth: wrist flips, hello elbow, etc. and then figure out how their body is actually designed to work. What few male pitchers are left learn by monkey see, monkey do. The top pitchers all do similar things. Copy those and you'll be fine. Fundamentally, we're designed the same way. The bodily organs that separate us have nothing to do with pitching.
End of rant.
Bill
