Very nice Dana. Also, constant flying out will cause back injuries on the young, undeveloped teen.
the real deal
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It is likely another thread but why is swimming so bad and something that needs corrected. It is obviously something that is totally natural...nobody is taught to do it...only to undo it. Many high level pitchers seem to do it to various degrees. From experience what issues are indisputibly improved when the swim is eliminated.
L
Without a doubt it will affect accuracy. Most pitchers who do this will miss on the outside due to the shoulders being turned out by the glove flying out. (RHP Vs RHB) Also for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (Sound familiar?) What kind of pressure do you think is being applied to the muscles of the throwing shoulder if you toss that left arm out? Your not going to have a straight windmill with the right arm. The hand will be pulled away from the body. Let alone what its doing to the left shoulder in terms of extension of the muscles and then sudden contraction. (Jenny Finch Clip)
Anything that keeps the shoulders, hips, and legs from driving towards the target, in the "Open" position prior to release is going to affect the pitcher. Not only with the pitch she is throwing but with the torque it places on the muscles. Over the course of time (Cumulative effect) it will have an impact on performance.
Without a doubt it will affect accuracy. Most pitchers who do this will miss on the outside due to the shoulders being turned out by the glove flying out. (RHP Vs RHB) Also for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (Sound familiar?) What kind of pressure do you think is being applied to the muscles of the throwing shoulder if you toss that left arm out? Your not going to have a straight windmill with the right arm. The hand will be pulled away from the body. Let alone what its doing to the left shoulder in terms of extension of the muscles and then sudden contraction. (Jenny Finch Clip)
Anything that keeps the shoulders, hips, and legs from driving towards the target, in the "Open" position prior to release is going to affect the pitcher. Not only with the pitch she is throwing but with the torque it places on the muscles. Over the course of time (Cumulative effect) it will have an impact on performance.
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Dana, thanks for the info, please realize I was being sarcastic there, was just getting a little upset that a select few chose to rip apart a 15 year old phenom that throws 68, my main idea to begin with was how she could generate so much speed, but it took off into a "lets rip this young lady along with the shamrocks" I do appreciate you post though, thank you.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Phew, I'm relieved
. I for one was impressed by the young pitcher, but was getting worried that this thread was ultimately headed to appointing a forum member to tell Jenny Finch that she was being cut from the DiscussFP Forum Gold team and I didn't want to be the hatchet man and make her cry GM
I vaguely recall Hillhouse(?) saying something to the effect that he doesn't care what his students do with their glove hand. I think there is a good reason for that. All too often, the discussions here seem to lose sight of the fact that not everyone is built the same way. Some girls have long arms, others have big shoulders, still others have broad hips. What works best for one pitcher may not work so well for another, due entirely to differences in physical constraints. While there are certainly many basic principles in pitching that are universal (those who have visited this board for a while know what they are), one could go too far by interpreting these principles to mean that there is only one "right" way to produce results, and that any deviation from any of the principles is necessarily detrimental to the pitcher's performance.
Tori is a former gymnast, who is gifted with not only long and strong limbs (she is a 5'8" girl with the arms and legs of a 6'2" woman, and the torso of a 5'4" girl; which just means she is a 6'2" pitcher with a 4" lower release point), but also above-average flexibility. I've never had the pleasure of watching her pitch in person, but from the videos and photos I've seen, I would not be surprised if she is one of those people who can easily make their elbows touch when they clasp their hands behind their back. With that much range of motion to work with, I would submit that she can "swim" all she wants with her glove arm and still keep her pitching shoulder wide open - with plenty of room to spare. Indeed, swimming may be the only way she can generate enough tension in her chest to anchor her glove side, in order to provide the necessary leverage to help drive her pitching arm through the down swing. She may not even be aware that she is swimming: Her body simply tells her that this is what she needs to do to whip her arm through the circle as fast as possible... She might even "feel" that her glove is in front of her, when in fact it's almost behind her. So telling her to keep the glove in front is likely to make zero difference in practice.
My own dd, who is as stiff as a board, would be sending the ball into the stands if her glove side looked anything like Tori's. For girls like my dd, keeping the glove in front definitely makes a difference.
In real life, one size most certainly does not fit all. As parents/coaches, we would do well to learn to recognize what is different and unique about our children, and try our best to tailor our instructions to fit the actual individual, not to some idealized mirage, lest we wind up destroying what we are seeking to nurture.
Just my $ 0.02
Tori is a former gymnast, who is gifted with not only long and strong limbs (she is a 5'8" girl with the arms and legs of a 6'2" woman, and the torso of a 5'4" girl; which just means she is a 6'2" pitcher with a 4" lower release point), but also above-average flexibility. I've never had the pleasure of watching her pitch in person, but from the videos and photos I've seen, I would not be surprised if she is one of those people who can easily make their elbows touch when they clasp their hands behind their back. With that much range of motion to work with, I would submit that she can "swim" all she wants with her glove arm and still keep her pitching shoulder wide open - with plenty of room to spare. Indeed, swimming may be the only way she can generate enough tension in her chest to anchor her glove side, in order to provide the necessary leverage to help drive her pitching arm through the down swing. She may not even be aware that she is swimming: Her body simply tells her that this is what she needs to do to whip her arm through the circle as fast as possible... She might even "feel" that her glove is in front of her, when in fact it's almost behind her. So telling her to keep the glove in front is likely to make zero difference in practice.
My own dd, who is as stiff as a board, would be sending the ball into the stands if her glove side looked anything like Tori's. For girls like my dd, keeping the glove in front definitely makes a difference.
In real life, one size most certainly does not fit all. As parents/coaches, we would do well to learn to recognize what is different and unique about our children, and try our best to tailor our instructions to fit the actual individual, not to some idealized mirage, lest we wind up destroying what we are seeking to nurture.
Just my $ 0.02
Where is the link?
- Apr 25, 2010
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I think you may be "mis-remembering". Hillhouse is my dd's PC. He most certainly does care what goes on with the glove hand. I remember at her first lesson with him, he kept calling her Dori and telling her not to "just keep swimming". Flinging the arm out to that side pulls the shoulders offline, thus forcing them to lean to the pitching hand in order to compensate. That, in turn, causes the pitching arm to come away from the body and everything gets all off kilter. Just last week, he kept reminding her not to swim that glove hand out. It is a point of emphasis because it draws everything off the power line. Sometimes even the stride foot.
I had no idea this was still being discussed. Funny stuff. All of the college coaches that wanted Tori to commit with them, including several in the top 10, must all be clueless. Maybe they should have checked with some of the "experts" on this thread first.... Good times
- Apr 25, 2010
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I had no idea this was still being discussed. Funny stuff. All of the college coaches that wanted Tori to commit with them, including several in the top 10, must all be clueless. Maybe they should have checked with some of the "experts" on this thread first.... Good times
Wow. Could you be a little more condescending? I don't think you laid it on thick enough.
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