The Ongoing Debate about Masks

[PGSAKen]

Great question.

If a pitcher is taking a throw at the plate as a runner comes crashing into home and gets cleated, slicing her shins open, can the ASA get in trouble for not mandating that pitchers wear shin guards?

-W

Liability is typically determined in degrees with factors such as frequency and cost. Question is where is the line.

I take it I am the only one that heard anything at a national asa event this summer. Starting to wonder how many of us are coaches that have been to a national event as this may not be the forum for my question.

 

[Mylil32]

Great question.

If a pitcher is taking a throw at the plate as a runner comes crashing into home and gets cleated, slicing her shins open, can the ASA get in trouble for not mandating that pitchers wear shin guards?

-W

If you slice your shins open, it's stitches and a few weeks rest if not broken. If you take an 80MPH fastball to the face it will require several rounds of facial reconstruction, teeth, maybe even skin grafts, IF it doesn't kill you.

 

[starsnuffer]

I stopped giving much stock to what I heard at national events (this year was 16u nationals, last year 14u western nationals). You hear all kinds of things. What I've learned is that the older and more distinguished sounding the official, the more full of BS they generally are. I guess people get to a certain age when they start believing themselves.

The mask question has come up before. There were also grumblings and rumors about changing the pitching distance for 14u 3 or 4 years before the USSSA changed it, and the ASA a few years after that. Every year at the ASA conference all of the proposals are documented and there's usually some pretty transparent information on what gets passed on for actual voting. Until that point, I'm not sure its worth trying to find the signal in all the noise.

-W

 

[soupy62]

If you slice your shins open, it's stitches and a few weeks rest if not broken. If you take an 80MPH fastball to the face it will require several rounds of facial reconstruction, teeth, maybe even skin grafts, IF it doesn't kill you.

Hopefully the ball is only going 80 when it hits you in the face LOL. Exit speeds of 98MPH and we know some bats exceed that from time to time. Obviously its only MY opinion but its gotten to the point with the 43 feet that some teams have entire lineups that can crush the ball. Used to be if yuo hit 60MPH as a pitcher there might only be a few kids on a team that were threats.... anymore you have to worry about complete lineups. I do think it was good for the game but once you change things other things may need to follow. I think mandating 3rd, P, and 1st is smart.
Its a law that adult's HAVE to wear seat belts in the front seat but not the back, i think this is the same concept. Sometimes if people arent smart enough to defend themself then others need to step in and do it for them.

 

[MTR]

Something has triggered this to suddenly become an issue and we are all asking if anyone knows why. Some valid points have been made so well see what comes of this.

It has NOT suddenly become an issue. There were 3 separate rule change proposals in 2009 mandating masks for the pitcher and corners, all were rejected by consensus

I remember last years session-ASA didnt even discuss the potential new bat regs which usssa already acted on. It was quite funny as the response was suspected as thumbing their nose at usssa for having the nerve to tell asa what to do. The result was usssa postponing their rule till after this years asa session. Lets see if politics rules again

You don't want to be flamed and say something this ridiculous? ASA has been miles ahead of every softball AND baseball organizations in the world when it comes to bat safety. And why in the world would they even talk about what U-trip does, it is irrelevant.

USSSA changed their safety standards trying to catch up to everyone else. They also took a clean sweep to ban ALL previously approved bats and force all participants to purchase a new bat which meets their new standards. They did this in FP & SP. From what I understand, they only delayed the FP game, forced the SP players to buy new equipment for this year. The FP was put back a year supposedly because of "manufacturing delays" (U-trip's words). Their reasoning for forcing new equipment? The umpires and directors couldn't keep up with checking the bats.

For the same reason helmets became an issue
For the same reason chin straps on helmets became an issue
For the same reason face masks on helmets became an issue
For the same reason exit speeds on bats became an issue

Pure and simple safety

And in every case, the equipment was there, ALREADY being worn in many cases. But because the few resisted, people go into a Chicken Little mode and all of a sudden, it must be mandatory or the sanctioning bodies are callous and don't care.

Again, my question is if it is so important, why are the parents and coaches NOT taking action to put masks on the players about which they claim to care so much? It is sort of funny, but at the same time very sad that I can never get an answer to that question and I've been asking it for over 5 years.

What is even worse is if parents and coaches hesitate or turn a blind eye because of the belief some college coaches view the use of safety equipment as a sign of weakness.

And for now ASA agrees with your position that it is a personal choice and that's fine. The question posed by the OP was is that about to change? I don't know the answer to that but my feeling is it it will probably be discussed annually.

I have little doubt this will eventually get passed, but it is disappointing that the folks around the game have become so weak they need to be directed by a faceless organization on how to protect their children.

Maybe ASA will give the folks a break and not require NOCSAE-approved masks, but I'd be surprised if their lawyers let them do that. Then again, mandating anything, tested and approved or not, does not alleviate perceived responsibility and protection from the ambulance chasers looking to make a quick buck off someone else's misfortune.

 

[Westwind]

"What is even worse is if parents and coaches hesitate or turn a blind eye because of the belief some college coaches view the use of safety equipment as a sign of weakness."

"I have little doubt this will eventually get passed, but it is disappointing that the folks around the game have become so weak they need to be directed by a faceless organization on how to protect their children."

MTR, I could not agree more. And how pathetic are parents and coaches who think this way. I think what really fires me up about this issue is that someone is going to look down on me for putting a mask on my kid? Really? That is infuriating.

I admit, ASA mandating it is the easy way out for me. DD wears it and and I don't have to worry about some twerp telling me that my kid must not be able to field since she wears a mask.

 

[splinterpicker]

I like free will. Why does there have to be a rule? This is a game that injuries happen and there is nothing a mandate or rule change will do to change that. If a young lady wears a mask that is wonderful, but that is their choice and should be respected. Every one has a story about a mask situation, even myself. I am more of an advoctate of deadening the bats. The cause is the ball being hit off a $300 bat that a well trained athlete is swinging.

 

[Indiana]

This is a great thread. I thought I'd add some math to the discussion. I'm impressed with how the sport of fastpitch has evolved to become very similar to baseball in regard to pitching distance. Do you all remember the SI article about Jennie Finch, pitching and baseball? A very interesting article which states that the hitter's reaction time in fastptich is the exact same as the reaction time in baseball, due to the differences in pitching distance and velocity.

I thought I'd apply that same logic to the pitcher's reaction time in the worst case scenario - a screaming line drive going right back to the circle or mound.

First looking at the elite: MLB exit velocities average 110 mph. Average olympic fastpitch exit velocity is 79 mph. Converting to feet/second, and then looking at the pitching distance - 60.5 feet vs. 43 feet - the ball will reach the pitcher is 0.37 seconds in BOTH cases. Exactly the same reaction time.

Now looking at average high school: baseball exit velocity 94 mph. Pitcher reaction time 0.43 seconds. Fastpitch exit velocity 66 mph. Pitcher reaction time 0.44 seconds.

(Caveat: this is just a very crude mathematical analysis - not taking into account air speed, friction over a longer or shorter distance, etc.)

At the elite level, 0.37 seconds is too little time for the brain to be able to process the event and direct the body accordingly. The body needs to react by itself (like moving a hand from a hot stove). The high school times are borderline, but I'd say that the body still needs to take over. My DD caught a liner last summer - she said that the ball was in her glove before she really knew what was happening (her lungs reacted as well - with a nice little F-bomb which luckily only a few people heard )

I heard a rumor over the summer of an Arizona based baseball team using masks on the mound.... but I have no way to substantiate it; I just heard it third-hand. Something to ponder... here is the article if anyone hasn't already seen it:

Ryan Howard and Rafael Nadal don't have quicker reflexes - 08.08.11 - SI Vault

 

[canyonjoe]

Does anyone recommend any good masks. DD wears one when catching but not in OF, but is moving back to play some 1B so I am looking to replace the cheap one she has. It's safe, but she complains she just can't see anything that's down.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Does anyone recommend any good masks. DD wears one when catching but not in OF, but is moving back to play some 1B so I am looking to replace the cheap one she has. It's safe, but she complains she just can't see anything that's down.

Both my DDs are happy with the Rip-it mask but I have also heard good things about the Schutt mask though I have no first hand experience with it.