The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[Rocketech1]

The bigger issue we are not addressing is that 99% of the softball played in the U.S. is not done in D1, but is performed by rec leagues teams, all-star teams, tournament teams, travel ball teams, middle school and high school teams (i.e. the breeding ground for pitching legally or illegally). How can you possibly enforce the pitching rules when you have only one plate umpire (e.g. 12u rec league game)? It one of the reasons why I have been an advocate of simplifying the pitching rules so we don't have the current system where illegal pitching is encouraged and not enforced and gives an advantage to those who are pitching illegally. Let's level the playing field for everyone...clearly the current system of ignoring illegal pitching at all levels of the game has not worked at all...time for a new approach...

 

[riseball]

I really do not think there is much concern over what happens 12U rec regarding the future of the sport. If the NCAA takes the lead, others will follow and clean up their act. Contrary to some claims leaping is NOT something that is deeply woven into the fabric of a pitchers mechanics. It is a the symptom of one of more mechanical deficiencies and/or just laziness.

With proper focus and effort any pitcher can pitch legally, and can do so within a couple of weeks. Most kids that leap have a host of mechanical issues that need to be addressed. Fix the mechanical issues, the leaping goes away, and overall they become a better pitcher. It is as simple as that. If you allow leaping at the lower levels you are promoting and enabling poor pitching mechanics which serves only parents and coaches with little skippies. On the other hand enforcing the rules and holding pitchers to a high standard will only improve pitching across the board.

If we give in to the enablers and dumb down the game because they think it is too much work to learn to pitch properly, what is next? Do we ban bunting because little Suzy says she can't or does not want to?

 

[GunnerShotgun]

That has to be one of the most nonsensical posts ever on DFP.

I had to top knightsb post about White being a competitor and it wasn't about the money. I couldn't leave him out there like that.

I notice you didn't include the rest of the post. It's a simple question. Why do they (D1 Coaches) condone it? Why do they let it happen?

They are outraged but only when it affects them (wins and loses which is tied to $$$). You can hope and wish all you want but if you read the notes from the last rules committee for D1, D2, and D3 this isn't even on their radar. In fact they (D1 and D3) are considering taking away the extra awarded on an illegal pitch. Instead of addressing the problem of illegal pitching they are allowing it to continue by lessening the penalty.

 

[knightsb]

Why do they (D1 Coaches) condone it? Why do they let it happen?

I just want to know from a coach what the pitching rules are going to be going forward, and I won't say any more on that because there's a big controversy on that. As well, why are some players allowed to cheat and why some aren't, and what am I supposed to teach my players .... and to teach other people? So we need to get that sorted out.

Interestingly enough, I think [MENTION=6136]GunnerShotgun[/MENTION] and Coach White are asking the same basic question, but of a different audience. Gunner is asking why the Coaches condone it, White is asking why the NCAA condones it (my interpretation). I don't think all coaches condone it. I think there are varying degrees of complacency. I think some coaches will allow a small skip step, some allow a small leap, some the back foot detaching from the pitcher's plate. "Give em and inch, and they'll take a mile", is what comes to mind when I see the replant.

It's like a base runner leaving a 1/2 step early versus 3-4 steps.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Interestingly enough, I think [MENTION=6136]GunnerShotgun[/MENTION] and Coach White are asking the same basic question, but of a different audience. Gunner is asking why the Coaches condone it, White is asking why the NCAA condones it (my interpretation). I don't think all coaches condone it. I think there are varying degrees of complacency. I think some coaches will allow a small skip step, some allow a small leap, some the back foot detaching from the pitcher's plate. "Give em and inch, and they'll take a mile", is what comes to mind when I see the replant.

It's like a base runner leaving a 1/2 step early versus 3-4 steps.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

 

[spleen1015]

Its funny to me that Gunner is giving knights a hard time over Mike White when knights just might know Mike White better than anyone on this board.

 

[FastPitchCat]

1) allowing hand dragging of the field at the end of four complete innings without request from the umpire;
2) allowing data to be retrieved from electronic devices during the game;
3) limiting the number of player-to-player conferences during an inning;
4) changing the penalty for an illegal pitch to a ball on the batter and not allowing baserunners to advance one base;
5) requiring slappers to have their entire foot in the batter’s box at contact;
6) adopting the force play slide rule similar to ncaa baseball and mlb;
7) allowing a batter to take first base on an intentional walk without being pitched to;
8) changing the hit by pitch rule back to requiring the batter to make an attempt to get out of the way, even if the ball is in the batter’s box;
9) changing the obstruction rule to requiring the fielder to have the ball in her possession/in glove to be positioned between the runner and the base;
10) allowing for projected substitutions; and
11) prohibiting baserunners to run into the outfield in an attempt to deceive the defense.

The bold-faced rules would improve the game. Right now, with the current HBP rule, you practically have to review every case to see if the part of the batter hit was in or out of the box.

for #4, they need to define or RE-define what IS an illegal pitch and if it's different in PAC12 or SEC or ACC

 

[Rocketech1]

I really do not think there is much concern over what happens 12U rec regarding the future of the sport.

You clearly missed my point. The illegal pitching you see in college is a direct result of allowing pitchers in the lower levels to get away with and ingrain the very illegal mechanics we see so prevalent in college. For example, in SoCal, kids start pitching as young as 7YO and that is where they are taught correct (by many times, incorrect) mechanics that stay with them for the rest of their playing career. To not look at what is going on at the younger ages with bad pitching instruction, improper mechanics and lack of enforcement is ignoring a big part of the problem IMO.

 

[riseball]

You clearly missed my point. The illegal pitching you see in college is a direct result of allowing pitchers in the lower levels to get away with and ingrain the very illegal mechanics we see so prevalent in college. For example, in SoCal, kids start pitching as young as 7YO and that is where they are taught correct (by many times, incorrect) mechanics that stay with them for the rest of their playing career. To not look at what is going on at the younger ages with bad pitching instruction, improper mechanics and lack of enforcement is ignoring a big part of the problem IMO.

Once again it is not ingrained, that is a myth. Leaping is the symptom of poor overall pitching mechanics. If a kid is leaping they have mechanical issues that must be addressed for them to succeed in the future. If the kid has minimal athletic ability and initiative it is easily fixed in a short period of time. However, if someone is making excuses for them that is another matter. Dumbing down the the physical requirements is never a good idea. Enforce the rules, train the pitchers and elevate the game. If a kid is truly physically unable to pitch legally there is always RF or soccer.

 

[martianr]

You clearly missed my point. The illegal pitching you see in college is a direct result of allowing pitchers in the lower levels to get away with and ingrain the very illegal mechanics we see so prevalent.

I agree 100%. But what does a pitching coach teach today? My DD pitching coach is very old school. He wants her to step,with NOT a long little leg stride. He wants more movement. This is were me and the PC and me and my DD but heads. I want more leg drive i.e. Like what I see on TV BUT with movements. I feel what has been happening in the college level today is going to steer the ship on the other wrong course or run us aground.