Teaching the high level pattern

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Oct 13, 2014
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South Cali
@TDS @Cannonball @Mike-Coach Q I am a stickler for things like this. I don’t want to train open hips. I want that to happen from the timing of the ball. That’s what sequence is all about I thought. The last thing you want imo is a kid who can’t cover the outside part of the plate slow or fast. Fundamentally i think it’s bad. Just to cheat the stretch? It’s like cheating leverage by swinging up. Another flaw that will eventually have to be fixed.

Teaching separation is a dead end imo. It varies so much and at different times and positions of leverage that it should be a reaction? So you train open hips and can’t touch 80% of pitches during a game, then what? Tell the player to stay square? Then they won’t know how to create stretch. I have a new 11 yo that just started w me. Couldn’t pull the ball. Casty draggy etc. here’s the first lesson. Taught her core contraction and she can now turn. Still a bit casty but she uses a heavier bat than I like so it will take some time. Plenty of stretch/separation.

1660756709740.gif

Just trying to discuss things here. Don’t take it as combative. That open hips stuff is poo-pooed by the scissor guy. I think he’s swung the pendulum to far the other way but that’s another story.

Imo Sean Foley has a good handle on the equation. He’s a golf coach. But the same rules apply. good space + good time= Success. That’s done w timing the ball not a position and not over stretching anything unless the pitch calls for it. I think that’s what AJ has changed this year..
 
Last edited:
Oct 13, 2014
5,187
113
South Cali
For me the hands dictate when you put your foot down and when/how much you separate. Of course the eyes tell the hands but I’m just speaking mechanically. This guys concepts are spot on imo.

 
Oct 13, 2014
5,187
113
South Cali
‘The hands and arms are the gps’..

‘This activation (core) gets this (hips) going’ ..

‘He’s turning into his weight shift’ .. move from the middle IME. Also the earliest natural stretch against forward moving hips. It’s the back while getting forward. Or keeping the weight from shifting across the pelvis too soon.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,573
113
@TDS @Cannonball @Mike-Coach Q I am a stickler for things like this. I don’t want to train open hips. I want that to happen from the timing of the ball. That’s what sequence is all about I thought. The last thing you want imo is a kid who can’t cover the outside part of the plate slow or fast. Fundamentally i think it’s bad. Just to cheat the stretch? It’s like cheating leverage by swinging up. Another flaw that will eventually have to be fixed.

Teaching separation is a dead end imo. It varies so much and at different times and positions of leverage that it should be a reaction? So you train open hips and can’t touch 80% of pitches during a game, then what? Tell the player to stay square? Then they won’t know how to create stretch. I have a new 11 yo that just started w me. Couldn’t pull the ball. Casty draggy etc. here’s the first lesson. Taught her core contraction and she can now turn. Still a bit casty but she uses a heavier bat than I like so it will take some time. Plenty of stretch/separation.

View attachment 26279

Just trying to discuss things here. Don’t take it as combative. That open hips stuff is poo-pooed by the scissor guy. I think he’s swung the pendulum to far the other way but that’s another story.

Imo Sean Foley has a good handle on the equation. He’s a golf coach. But the same rules apply. good space + good time= Success. That’s done w timing the ball not a position and not over stretching anything unless the pitch calls for it. I think that’s what AJ has changed this year..
Don't make it combative? LOL I am done with those days. I just love to discuss hitting and don't have to be right. The drill that I do which is close to what Mike does is simply one facet of drill work. I have found that as I have progressed as a coach, some players need to have a sense or feel for what their body does. In coaching that, I do the stork drill where my hitters lock their lead foot behind their back knee, rotate the body to "get the hips in the way to get them out of the way" and then stride to hit balls off of a tee. We then do this with front toss. Per the drill Mike has here, I mentioned that I finish with balls in flight. Before a practice is completed, my hitters will hit with their "game swings" in an attempt to put our areas of focus together in sequence.

Darrell
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,187
113
South Cali
Don't make it combative? LOL I am done with those days. I just love to discuss hitting and don't have to be right. The drill that I do which is close to what Mike does is simply one facet of drill work. I have found that as I have progressed as a coach, some players need to have a sense or feel for what their body does. In coaching that, I do the stork drill where my hitters lock their lead foot behind their back knee, rotate the body to "get the hips in the way to get them out of the way" and then stride to hit balls off of a tee. We then do this with front toss. Per the drill Mike has here, I mentioned that I finish with balls in flight. Before a practice is completed, my hitters will hit with their "game swings" in an attempt to put our areas of focus together in sequence.

Darrell

I said ‘don’t take it as combative’. Thanks for the response. I like to discuss things as well. Do you have to reel back the hips at anytime after having them opened that much when practicing?
 

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,890
113
WW, from the position BB is speaking of (first 15 seconds) one should be able to go with it or turn on it..


AJ is the opposite due to not creating the leveraged position before committing. IOW's his hips keep turning which makes him vulnerable to the off-speed sliders away.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,187
113
South Cali
WW, from the position BB is speaking of (first 15 seconds) one should be able to go with it or turn on it..


AJ is the opposite due to not creating the leveraged position before committing. IOW's his hips keep turning which makes him vulnerable to the off-speed sliders away.

This is such a tough subject. Lol. Check out these two swings from ROY candidate MH2. This is how it’s done imo. Outside and inside. Different points of leverage. Either way you gotta be vulnerable. Approach driven imo.



Notice the pelvis cover more ground and less. Notice long arms and short. Notice the ‘longer stride’ relative to time and space? One looks quicker paced and the other looks like his typical swing. Timing wise.
 
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TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,890
113
This is such a tough subject. Lol. Check out these two swings from ROY candidate MH2. This is how it’s done imo. Outside and inside. Different points of leverage. Either way you gotta be vulnerable. Approach driven I


Notice the pelvis cover more ground and less. Notice long arms and short. Notice the ‘longer stride’ relative to time and space? One looks quicker paced and the other looks like his typical swing.

Yea, I think we are discussing a different approach for sure but not sure on the pattern.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,573
113
I said ‘don’t take it as combative’. Thanks for the response. I like to discuss things as well. Do you have to reel back the hips at anytime after having them opened that much when practicing?
No, because this is one station. We have all types of things going on. Typically, we have somewhere in the area of 12-14 stations set up. Hitters are told which ones to do and might be told to skip one or two due to what they need to work on. We have two cages that are 70 feet in length so setting up stations is not hard to do. @mudrunner who used to post here more than he does now has seen some of this work since his dd took lessons from me for a while before COVID. BTW, did you catch that the stork drill that I described was kind of opposite the other drill where the hips were open? Again, working on different things and having hitters understand what their bodies are doing during the swing.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,187
113
South Cali
Yea, I think we are discussing a different approach for sure but not sure on the pattern.

If you notice MH2 has a set down in his stride and in the other has a reach in his stride. Shoulders load after stride in both etc etc. to me he’s timing away and adjusting in.
 

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