Teaching Hitting and the HIP COIL

[SBFAMILY]

Couple of points. 1. There are few college coaches that teach mess with a kids swing. I know of two recently that were known for this and both got fired. I was with a asst coach from the University of Tenn, that works with players one on one this weekend and the Weekly's are successful, because they recruit a player and then let others work on hitting. OSU has a new coach, because she didn't learn this lesson and after getting an earful from one of her players this weekend while I did a hitting lesson, she did a poor job of teaching hitting.
2. I think Don Slaught would get a chuckle of of him being mentioned with Mike. I know of only one softball hitting coach that has spent time with Don and has a personnel friendship and he no longer posts on here. So you can talk all you want about RVP, I do know who gives Don input. Last I checked Don has not given any one on one hitting lessons in softball, but he is fun to work a clinic with, if you can over look the glare of his ring from MLB! That kind of gets your attention and makes you realize this guy knows what he is talking about.
Many can call themself a hitting coach, but you know one when you have a conversation with one.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I guess what i am asking is that if you do not like or teach what we believe that the back elbow must come thru the slot to connection before the top hand. You must prefer the hand to come through first. I am looking at the pic of him as I type and what I see from the side is the top hand is pretty much on top of the elbow. It may be a little forward but not enough to cause him difficulty. Your v is the product of 3 points, hand and elbow top to bottom connecting to the rear shoulder or the rvp. I still believe that all this arguing is over semantics because I really dont see a diff in his pic from what we teach.

I've been pretty clear on what I disagreed with ..... the demonstrations of obtaining a vertical rear forearm that is far displaced from the body's trunk are incorrect.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't use the cue pressure between the knees. Former MLB player and hitting instructor Todd Greene who gives lessons North of Atlanta, used that term in the telephone interview I posted a link to. I'm not sure if he uses it in lessons, but he teaches the general action when giving lessons. The Dad/Coach that interviewed Todd said that his DD had not been taught that action by any of her previous instructors. As a former MLB player Todd clearly believes that holding the coil into toe touch is important.

I just tell the kids to keep the front side closed until they swing. I further tell them that when their brain says swing, the front side will want to open and to let it happen.

The reason I asked about your potential use of that cue is because of the statement in 'bold' above.

 

[Bouldersdad]

I've been pretty clear on what I disagreed with ..... the demonstrations of obtaining a vertical rear forearm that is far displaced from the body's trunk are incorrect.

Yes you have and I still dont understand your explanation, so thats why I said we can just agree to disagree. No sense wasting any more time on it

 

[tom.guerry]

FFS -

For HLBB/SNF pattern described in terms of sequential SSC/kinesiological motions, using Miyahira for context:

What's a Hip Turn? Part 2 :: Oceanic Time Warner Cable's AroundHawaii.com

The early batspeed/quickness/late adjustability end of the spectrrum requires the ongoing rear hip IR which is not a common golf swing variant (reaction time/on the fly adjustment usually not a requirement for golf), BUT

the remaining sequence is similar with power generated by dual hip and leg extension and dual hip ADduction.

the dual aDduction of the upper legs/femurs in hip socket needs to be set up during the stretch by dual ABduction/spreading of the legs at the knees.

If you try to teach holding the beachball, you prevent aBduction and prevent adequate contribution to firing by dual aDduction by not preparing for the ADduction.

 

[Wellphyt]

FFS -

For HLBB/SNF pattern described in terms of sequential SSC/kinesiological motions, using Miyahira for context:

What's a Hip Turn? Part 2 :: Oceanic Time Warner Cable's AroundHawaii.com

The early batspeed/quickness/late adjustability end of the spectrrum requires the ongoing rear hip IR which is not a common golf swing variant (reaction time/on the fly adjustment usually not a requirement for golf), BUT

the remaining sequence is similar with power generated by dual hip and leg extension and dual hip ADduction.

the dual aDduction of the upper legs/femurs in hip socket needs to be set up during the stretch by dual ABduction/spreading of the legs at the knees.

If you try to teach holding the beachball, you prevent aBduction and prevent adequate contribution to firing by dual aDduction by not preparing for the ADduction.

Tom - Todd Greene I believe uses an analogy of a ball that increases in size during the stride. I believe SB says something similar. That's the main reason I don't use the beach ball or pressure between the legs analogy. I feel like it can be a little confusing to kids to understand that the ball starts off one size in the stance, but typically gets bigger during the stride. In essence, the size of the ball being held between the legs will vary in size during the stance, coil and stride.

 

[Wellphyt]

Please tell me you aren't keeping their lead knees closed until "GO!".

You can coil with a closed front side all you want, but it has to turn open to allow for the proper resistance. The proper resistance is moved to the hands. As a result, the COG lowers. (Some call this being sat) Bustos is the best example in softball, IMO.

However, you need to be VERY careful not to ACTIVELY open the lead leg. The front leg has a role. But it's done unconsciously, if the hitter is a decent athlete.

One of the biggest revelations I've had over the past 24 months is that a lot of the actions that get taught happen naturally. IMO one of the actions that happens naturally is the opening of the front side. Two years ago at one practice I made sure to watch each girl on our travel team as they warmed up throwing overhand. To my surprise, the front thigh of every one of them rolled over prior to their front foot landing; just as Hodge describes in his video. That was enough to convince me that if the girls are taught to hit using the overhand throw as a model, the front side will open correctly automatically.

 

[PEPPERS]

Alabama coaching staff recommended keeping the knees inside the ankles during the swing and the pressure should be on the inner thighs. Knees outside the ankles they referred to as a leak which robbed the hitter of power. They used a volley ball held between the knees to exaggerate this during the swing and to give the hitter the feeling of knees inside the ankles.

 

[Wellphyt]

Couple of points. 1. There are few college coaches that teach mess with a kids swing. I know of two recently that were known for this and both got fired. I was with a asst coach from the University of Tenn, that works with players one on one this weekend and the Weekly's are successful, because they recruit a player and then let others work on hitting. OSU has a new coach, because she didn't learn this lesson and after getting an earful from one of her players this weekend while I did a hitting lesson, she did a poor job of teaching hitting.
2. I think Don Slaught would get a chuckle of of him being mentioned with Mike. I know of only one softball hitting coach that has spent time with Don and has a personnel friendship and he no longer posts on here. So you can talk all you want about RVP, I do know who gives Don input. Last I checked Don has not given any one on one hitting lessons in softball, but he is fun to work a clinic with, if you can over look the glare of his ring from MLB! That kind of gets your attention and makes you realize this guy knows what he is talking about.
Many can call themself a hitting coach, but you know one when you have a conversation with one.

Come on...really...college coaches don't mess with kid's swings Alabama, Louisiana, apparently Valpo...

I know that Slaught and Epstein aren't buddies. That doesn't change the fact that Slaught through RVP and Epstein through his dvds, seminars, hitting camps and certified instructors throughout the country; haven't had a big impact on college softball swings. They just don't brag about it.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Don't bring up Valpo to Tim. You are correct MESS UP! I have worked with Slaught and I know exactly why he doesn't like Mike. There are good and bad coaches in every sport. Just like those that read a book or watch RVP or a DVD think they understand what that person is saying, then they think they are an expert! I have found it is better to talk to the person to understand what they are trying to say, like I have found that the smart coaches know who to help them teach hitting. Interesting you bring up Alabama, I do know who they call! Here the OSU coach got fired, and had no clue how to teach. I worked with one of her players this weekend, and it was sad how bad it was. Coaches pick up a phone and know who to call. Even Don Slaught has those he calls for advice.