Swing down

[TDS]

IMO "Swing down" is for adjusting if your start getting to loopy.

Ted Williams:

Up, Up Is The Way


Now, what about that “level” swing? As I said, you have always heard that the ideal
swing is level or “down.” Your swing often coincides with your physical capabilities.
Certainly a Nellie Fox had more of a level swing than a Mickey Mantle, because
Nellie didn’t knock down fences. Fox was a great little punch hitter who
concentrated on getting a piece of the ball, on being quick with the bat, on
directing balls sharply through the holes instead of up in the air. He had his sights
high—to get on top of the ball. A fly ball from a light hitter is usually an out. When
the ball is on the ground it puts a greater burden on the fielders. Things can
happen.
But if you get the ball into the air with power, you have the gift to produce the
most important hit in baseball—the home run. More important is that you hit
consistently with authority. For those purposes, I advocate a slight upswing (from
level to about 10 degrees), and there is another good reason for this—the biggest
reason:
Say the average pitcher is 6 foot 2. He’s standing on a mound 10 inches high.
He’s pitching overhand, or three-quarter arm. He releases the ball right about ear
level. Your strike zone is, roughly, from 22 inches to 4 feet 8. Most pitchers will
come in below the waist, because the low pitch is tougher to hit. The flight of the
ball is
down
(see diagram), about 5 degrees. A slight upswing—again, led by the
hips coming around and up—puts the bat flush in line with the path of the ball for a
longer period—that 12- to 18-inch impact zone.
The Science of Hitting
—
47



Ken McMullen, formerly with the Senators, is an example. McMullen had a good
year for us after a bad start, and he did it by adjusting from a downswing to an
upswing. He did it all himself. All I said was, “Look, Mac, you’re swinging down on
the ball too much. You’re swinging down.” I got two players, Epstein and another
guy, and I said, “Okay, Mac, swing the bat.” He swung and I put my bat on the line
of his swing and held it there. I said, “Okay, Mike, you swing.” We held the other
bat on the line of Epstein’s swing and put the two lines together.
Now, it’s true that Epstein swings up a little too much, but there was too much
difference between his and McMullen’s, and Mac saw it, too. He was hitting about .
235 with eight home runs at the All-Star break. He ended up hitting .272 and 19
home runs. He began to get that hard overspin on ground balls, and they were
going through the infield with something on them. When he hit it solid, boy, it went.
He hit the longest ball he ever hit at the stadium, way up in the upper deck.
Revert briefly to what I said about unbroken wrists and the importance of hip
action. You can tie the three together right here. Swing level (or what is commonly
called “down”), and the tendency is to bring your top hand over the ball at impact.
The effect is a tack-hammer stroke, almost a “roll”—and it is not what you want.
You’ll find that even without good hip action you can swing in that manner, and the
result is a minimum of power.
But if you swing slightly up you have to have the hips leading and then out of the
way, generating speed and power, and you will find your top hand (right hand for
right-handed batter, left hand for left-handed batter) is in the strongest possible
position: wrist unbroken and directly behind the ball at impact. The result: a ball hit
with greater power and authority.
Certainly there are times when you want to think more about getting on top of the
ball—times when you are having trouble, getting fooled, popping up. The upswing is
harder for one reason: It’s a longer stroke with a longer loop to it. It requires more
time. When I say “get on top of the ball,” I don’t mean to swing down or chop, but
to get your sights higher and level out your swing more. Nine times out of ten when
you fail to make contact with a pitch you have swung under it.
The level swing—or, when you’re really having trouble, the “push” swing—is the
shortest possible stroke; you have less chance of hitching, or overswinging. It helps
The Science of Hitting
—
49

you get back on top of the ball and, more important, gives you more time to wait, to
keep from getting fooled. It is also the ideal two-strike swing, and here is where so
many of today’s hitters are failing, aren’t hitting as many singles and doubles,
aren’t hitting .300, but are striking out so much. They don’t protect themselves on a
two-strike pitch. Two strikes and they’re still swinging 100 per cent, trying to pull,
trying to hit the ball into the seats.

Yea, Ted on occasion got loopy but he did so from a leveraged position.

 

[TDS]

 

[FP26]

Even the drawings included in your post show the barrel looping around the rear shoulder, not diving down in front of it.

 

[TDS]

Even the drawings included in your post show the barrel looping around the rear shoulder, not diving down in front of it.

Who said anything about diving down in front of it ?

Sorry, but I don't see him try to loop it around the rear shoulder in that image..

This clip it looks like its floating (free hands) while getting leveraged.

 

[FP26]

Who said anything about diving down in front of it ?

Sorry, but I don't see him try to loop it around the rear shoulder in that image..

This clip it looks like its floating (free hands) while getting leveraged.

The demonstrations of several professional players that were shared show a dramatically different 'barrel' path than their game swings. Some people attribute the difference to posture, and I agree with that to a certain extent. However, there is a substantial difference between hand path and barrel path. A hitter could have a decent hand path and still have a below average barrel path. The best hitters excel at both.

 

[Work=wins]

Makes no sense bc the players compared have a good path w both hands and barrel. Bc they use their hands. They control the release of the barrel into the pitch plane…

it’s funny some here preach Teds stuff. ok, but they wanna talk about the barrel. He talked about the hands.

he preached a ‘SLIGHT’ upswing. well that means the barrel is above the pitch plane much longer than a loopy swing generally.

this is just a feeble attempt to hold onto past crappy instruction of TTB deep to see it longer and see it deeper. It’s been exposed! that’s not optimal to do damage. it’s more of a 2 strike approach. LOL

 

[Work=wins]

 

[_MIA_]

this is just a feeble attempt to hold onto past crappy instruction of TTB deep to see it longer and see it deeper. It’s been exposed! that’s not optimal to do damage. it’s more of a 2 strike approach. LOL

I mean TTB isn't too "past". When I was growing up Walt Hriniak was all the buzz...

 

[Work=wins]

Down to causes the front shoulder to pull off early and bad bat path

TTB causes the barrel to drop

Both issues are the most prevalent I see in players

The brain is good. It will tell the hands what to do. Work on using the body.

I think the reason many pros work on down to is because of pop ups. Most foul balls are misses under.

Has nothing to do with swinging down. That’s usually spacing or force transmission. Using the hips/legs early.

when you work on the body without the hands that will create drag. the hands need to position the swing. they’re active and directing the body to its launch position.

 

[FP26]

See my notes below...

Makes no sense bc the players compared have a good path w both hands and barrel. Bc they use their hands. They control the release of the barrel into the pitch plane… Yes, most pros have good hand paths and barrel paths. Most amateurs do not. They are the ones that need help. Focusing on one without focusing on the other seems a bit shortsighted to me...

it’s funny some here preach Teds stuff. ok, but they wanna talk about the barrel. He talked about the hands. Yep, I appreciate Ted's teachings. I also appreciate the use of the hands. That said, the barrel is the money maker. That is what actually makes contact with the ball. For those interested in technology, most hitting apps allow you to view both metrics, and doing so can help you in the long run.

he preached a ‘SLIGHT’ upswing. well that means the barrel is above the pitch plane much longer than a loopy swing generally. Yep. I agree with you again. This is the same song and dance that has been used on every hitting site I have been to... and why I rarely get involved anymore. Very few people are actually interested in "discussion" any more.

this is just a feeble attempt to hold onto past crappy instruction of TTB deep to see it longer and see it deeper. It’s been exposed! that’s not optimal to do damage. it’s more of a 2 strike approach. LOL What I see is some people are willing to have discussions and willing to attempt to see things from another person's perspective. Others are not... That's a shame...