Straight Arm all the way through release - Please Help!

[halskinner]

Toyz R Us

Thanks Hal. I've been shopping for such a ball for a couple years and haven't found the perfect size. A couple days ago DD said, "Hey dad! Catch!" and threw me a football we'd had in the bottom of the toy chest for years! It's perfect... DUH!!!

We'll go out tonight and play.

Have not bought one there in around 10 years. They had a perfect one for 7.99 back then. Rubber but felt like a real football and the weight was right for the half size. Same football I carried in my ''Bag O Tricks' when I was teaching.

 

[javasource]

My daughter just cant seem to get the feeling of I/R she basically keeps your arm straight and more or less pushes the ball at release. I have read all the I/R classromm threads and many others. Is there any other ways to get her to feel the proper release or just keep doing drills as indicated in the I/R classroom and she will eventually get it. She is very athletic and actuall throws pretty well this way but has hit a wall with speed because of it and obviously its not how elite pitchers throw.

Goetz... do you work with her... meaning catch for her? If so, I really, really, really recommend that you BOTH learn the i/r motion together. Reading that thread and doing that thread are two seperate monsters. Admittedly, I added many of BM's suggestions to my instruction - as his method is very, very well thought and marvellously put into words. That said... I think your efforts with your daughter would be much more progressive if YOU could feel what you are trying to get her to do.

Some of my best experiences instructing come from the requirement I have... that both the pitcher and their parent/helper learn the motions. This often shuts the parents up that know it all, and instead creates a symbiotic relationship with the pitcher and parent, as they get to share in the frustrations of learning as well as bounce feedback/ideas off one another. Furthermore, they are both learning... so their expectations are the same. It really helps the kid feel at home and at ease when they see their parent struggling and not just saying, "come on! You're doing it wrong". They don't like disappointing their parents.

If you don't do it already, you'll be twice the mentor and coach for her, if you learn and throw with the motions too. Even if she starts making you look like a chump... going that distance for her sends a great message and makes it more fun for both of you.

I think it is good decision that she is not pitching in games... good call.

Lastly... go back and re-read those i/r threads. I do recall BM emphasizing that you need to learn to throw before you learn to pitch. Focus on i/r basics he offers by simply playing catch. Forget pitching. Learn to throw. BOTH of you. Have fun together. Learning those concepts shouldn't be rushed... and yoube suprised how quickly you both latch on to this natural method of throwing.

Keep at it... you've good intentions.

 

[Ken B]

javasource,
That's some of the best advice I can think of! No better way to understand the feeling behind the words so you can relate (to some degree) with what the kids are feeling.

I say "to some degree" because I'm 6.4 and have very large hands, so I'm sure that grip and spin are very different compared to smaller hands.

Ken

 

[Rick Pauly]

If you look simply at the physics of it that really does sound crazy. But if you ask a pitcher what her favorite pitch is you are probably going to find it is the one she practices the most, has the best timing on, has the most confidence in and is probably her fastest (or at least second fastest)pitch.
Is it the norm....no, but it is not that abnormal.

Oooh!!! One of my favorite dilemmas! How can the rise and curve be faster than a FB?

Anyone?

 

[JJsqueeze]

Did a search and here's a pitcher getting criticized for having her hand behind the ball (the thread was about whether she was HE (some said no), and it appears in these threads that hand behind the ball causes or is equal to HE, and the original poster marvels that she could be successful this way, ie, with HE/hand behind the ball.) This are several posts like this on this board.

So what is the point you are making? That pushing the ball is as effective as IR? That some pitchers can be successful with different mechanics? That pushing is not bad?

 

[Goetz]

Lauren Lock it in Drill 1013 - YouTube

Does this look right for Lock it in Drill

 

[Goetz]

"Reading" the I/R in the classroom thread won't help you.........DOING THE DRILLS will.........

It is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to do the the "lock it in drill" with a straight arm..........

IF you do what is explained in the "unlock it" drill.......The arm cannot be straight.......

These drills are DESIGNED to train "bent elbow" bio-mechanics to throw the ball..........

The liberty drill has the upper arm level to the ground and the forearm almost vertical to the sky......Elbow bent to approx. 120 degrees.

So I believe you when you said you've "read" the threads.........I'd suggest you stop reading and start doing.......

These 3 progressive drills are the fastest way I know of to allow a student to LEARN AND FEEL I/R WHIP........Do them often......And do them CORRECTLY every time..........

Don't do anything else with the motion until she can throw at 75-100% effort from the liberty drill position WITHOUT the bio-mechanics breaking down.........

Now get out there and teach your kid to WHIP the ball.........

Lauren Lock it in Drill 1013 - YouTube

Does this look right for Lock it in Drill

 

[JJsqueeze]

When we do it we don't start with the palm up. By the time the upper arm has contacted the side, the IR has already started so the ball is facing more towards third. If you look at BM you will see that his hand is not facing up at the beginning. It just doesn't feel natural either, otherwise it looks about right, maybe a little stiff but right. it should smooth out a little with practice.

I think if you start with the ball at 6 o clock and naturally move back- then forward you will get a smoother IR transition feeling as opposed to starting the way she I starting. don't interpret this as a speed drill either. I view it as a feel drill, we do not try to go fast with it, just smooth. As we go out to the unlock it we speed it up.

 

[FrozenRope]

To me it looks like muscle memory is taking over and she's still trying to get behind the ball too early in the sequence. Dont have her throw to a target...like a catcher with a glove. She's likely to have NO control over where the ball goes, even with that 1/4 circle throw. Have her do it against a fence, or a net..... her trying to hit a target will force her to go back to how she knows how to throw the ball. She doesn;t know how to throw with the IR mechanics... no reason to expect her to be able to hit anything smaller than a firetruck at this point.

 

[JJsqueeze]

JJ: Government shutdown getting to you?
I am not for what I posted. I am just wondering why a top coach says 'hand behind the ball' and posters say 'No, because that is HE.'

Now we have it on the record, so I am fine. As Hal said, what you do with your hand afterwards probably has no effect, but I add 'except on health.'

gotcha...and no...the shutdown doesn't bother me much but I thought the joke was funny....

There are plenty of people who teach the hand behind the ball, in fact, from my experience, most do. Every pitcher I have seen in DDs league uses a push/HE delivery or has components of them that indicate that even if they are using some IR, they are being taught more of a palm down technique (big elbow bend after release is very common). The IR concept is still a minority technique in my opinion, at least in what people think they are teaching, I don't think enough people take video and look at it in slo motion to really understand what they are doing and/or teaching. What BM/Rick/Hillhouse advocate and understand is still not mainstream with the average PC. I think on this board we have already converted as a group philosophy so this is the exception not the rule. So it does not surprise me that you can find examples like you did.