Planetary Rotation

[SJVCoachingDad]

A brief background. I've been lurking the board and learning as much as I could for the last year or so. I've read and believe I understand the I/R in the Classroom sticky, seen Mike M's videos explaining more of the I/R. Last spring I taught my 10 year-old the basics of I/R pitching after she decided she wanted to pitch. Things went great. She progressed through all the drills and loved it. Around December we took a break because she had progressed to where she could reliably throw 6 out of 10 pitches over the plate with the 12/6 spin described in the I/R sticky.

She got sick in January, and we couldn't start warming her arm up for spring until mid-February. Out of nowhere she now throws the ball with what I can only describe as planetary spin or completely random wobble. We've been back at the lock-it-in drill for almost a month now and she cannot get her fingers down at release no matter what we try. So, I come to you asking how we can un-learn this habit and re-learn I/R, because there isn't a cue I've read for the lock-it-in drill that is working.

 

[Bonesaw]

Nothing too major. Biggest thing is DONT TURN HER SIDEWAYS!!!! haha. Be more square/closed with a drill like that.. She is throwing bulletspin there(with IR). Could be way worse.

 

[SJVCoachingDad]

Nothing too major. Biggest thing is DONT TURN HER SIDEWAYS!!!! haha. Be more square/closed with a drill like that.. She is throwing bulletspin there(with IR). Could be way worse.

Thanks, so have her hips and shoulders more in line with her feet, which are at a 45 deg. angle to where she’s aiming?

 

[Northball]

First thing that will mess you up if you're watching the black stripe: Her grip needs to have middle finger and thumb along the black stripe, with pads of three middle fingers just over the seam (4 seam grip). Then you can read the spin to see what is going on. After that, you're right. She is not keeping her fingers pointing down at instant of release. She is rolling the ball off the side of her index finger. Have her bounce a ball about 4 feet in front of her to you using the same 9 o'clock drill, I/R motion. She has to get those fingers down and even somewhat over the top to make it happen. When she figures that out, increase the distance to where it bounces and back-chain to add energy. Progress to where she doesn't need to bounce and is still getting the desired rotation.

 

[DNeeld]

A brief background. I've been lurking the board and learning as much as I could for the last year or so. I've read and believe I understand the I/R in the Classroom sticky, seen Mike M's videos explaining more of the I/R. Last spring I taught my 10 year-old the basics of I/R pitching after she decided she wanted to pitch. Things went great. She progressed through all the drills and loved it. Around December we took a break because she had progressed to where she could reliably throw 6 out of 10 pitches over the plate with the 12/6 spin described in the I/R sticky.

She got sick in January, and we couldn't start warming her arm up for spring until mid-February. Out of nowhere she now throws the ball with what I can only describe as planetary spin or completely random wobble. We've been back at the lock-it-in drill for almost a month now and she cannot get her fingers down at release no matter what we try. So, I come to you asking how we can un-learn this habit and re-learn I/R, because there isn't a cue I've read for the lock-it-in drill that is working.

Its really very simple. She's unloading early. Or starting internal rotation too soon. Or she has a "long release zone". Lots of terms to describe the same thing: She isn't keeping her arm loaded and is rotating it early instead of fighting to keep the ball pointed up.

This isn't a huge issue, but does cause a feathering of the fingers at release instead of the desired snap. This will cause the ball to roll out of the hand from ring finger to trigger finger and is one of the causes of bullet spin.

Just look at the still. As soon as she starts to bring her arm down, she also starts rotation. Have her fight to keep the ball pointed up as long as possible and the issue should resolve pretty quickly without any other cues.

 

[SJVCoachingDad]

First thing that will mess you up if you're watching the black stripe: Her grip needs to have middle finger and thumb along the black stripe,

I was under the impression that if her thumb could not reach the stitching along the black stripe that its better for her thumb to be off the stripe and on the stitching as close to the stripe as she can get it. She has very small hands and if she put her thumb on the stripe it would be about an inch shy of the stitching on the leather. Is it better to have the thumb off the stitching, but on the stripe?

 

[efastball]

Somebody had to do it.

 

[ArmWhip]

To me it's an open question as to what fastball spin should be. Some pitchers naturally throw top, some bullet, and some split the difference. Many high level pitchers throw bullet spin, here is an example:




I typically ask my students to start with their regular overhand throw grip and we adjust later on if needed.

 

[SJVCoachingDad]

Somebody had to do it.

I had no other way to describe it. In the video she has bullet spin. Sometimes though the line stays perfectly horizontal and the ball looks like a planet rotating on its axis.

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

I was under the impression that if her thumb could not reach the stitching along the black stripe that its better for her thumb to be off the stripe and on the stitching as close to the stripe as she can get it. She has very small hands and if she put her thumb on the stripe it would be about an inch shy of the stitching on the leather. Is it better to have the thumb off the stitching, but on the stripe?

IMO, since we want the thumb off the ball at release (otherwise it gets in the way), it being on the stitching doesn't matter. Unless it's flying out of her hand at some point in the circle. I've seen that. However, trying to force the oppositional position (thumb oppo middle finger) in a girl with small hands may result in her palming the ball, which is bad. So (again, imo) wherever her thumb lands is fine. That's not really a concern for me.

As others have said - she really needs to be in her 'release posture' when doing any of these release drills, which means hips more at a 45, strong front side. If you're not in your release posture, you're practicing something different and it may not actually relate to the movement that happens in a full pitch.

As for the arm - my new favorite saying that I stole from someone here (thanks whoever you are!) "Elbow to hip, then the whip." She's starting the whip action before the upper arm compresses against the ribs. The whip should be a reaction to the arm compressing. (Another way to say it is what DN said - keep the ball pointed up as long as possible. The unloading of that should coincide with the upper arm contacting the body.)
First, set her up in a better release posture and reevaluate for this issue. It may be that simple.
If it persists, you might try a quick drill where she uses the same motion, but the goal is to slam the ball into the ground hard a couple of feet in front of her. That may 'snap' her out of the bullet spin (hehe).
Then, a next step in her development might be finding the feeling of elbow leading all the way until the arm contacts her side.