right elbow up or against body (rhb)

[obbay]

I think we coaches sometimes do more harm than good and our girls succeed in spite of our best intentions,

I couldn't believe one coach last spring, first game (U16) , at the start of every inning he's telling the girls right before they get up to bat that they have to swing down on the ball in order to make good contact. If a girl got a good hit he'd yell out to them "See? See what I mean? It works, doesn't it??!!"

I find the ones who know a lot are the ones who are less likely to attempt to overhaul a swing- Unless, as Mark says, the hitter wants to take it to another level and is going about it wrong.

 

[ifubuildit]

Mark

I understand what Ziggy was trying to display with the clip of Vlad. My problem with this is as I stated in my previous post. More often than not, if I would try and teach a young hitter to do what Vlad is doing in that clip, they would not get the scapula complex loaded. They would counter rotate instead trying make that move with the elbow down. They then come around the corner with that elbow in and slide into the bat drag position.

I've tried this on several of my students and it didn't work. Started seeing way too many pop ups. Based on my own experience. I also feel like I can get the scapula loaded into a much stronger position. With that elbow up. If it works for Pujols it cant be all that bad can it? I don't see him having timing issues and being slow getting to the ball.

Dana

 

[CoachKevin]

I couldn't believe one coach last spring, first game (U16) , at the start of every inning he's telling the girls right before they get up to bat that they have to swing down on the ball in order to make good contact. If a girl got a good hit he'd yell out to them "See? See what I mean? It works, doesn't it??!!"

I find the ones who know a lot are the ones who are less likely to attempt to overhaul a swing- Unless, as Mark says, the hitter wants to take it to another level and is going about it wrong.

I have another coach that says the same thing... driving me nuts.
Here is our latest conversation;

Him - You want to swing down on the ball and make solid contact.
Me - Why would you want to hit a ground ball when all infields practice fielding ground balls 90% of the time?
Him - I would rather make the defense have to make 3 plays (fielding the ground ball, throwing to base, baseman catching), than to catch a fly ball.
Me - Isn't a part of hitting to keep the bathead through the hitting zone as long as possible? How can the bat stay in that zone if your swinging down on the ball?
Him - Walked off shaking his head

 

[mudbug]

Physics. Once a body is in motion it is easier to keep it moving than to start from a dead stop. Does Kevin Youklis's or Gary Sheffield's pre-swing bat theatrics slow down the swing? My belief is that Contact is the direct result of timing more than batspeed (batspeed relating more to power). That skill or ability is developed by the batter and adjusted/fine tuned from pitch to pitch to compensate for variation in pitch speed. If a slapper can pull back on a pitch that they've already committed to, how much impact is raising or lowering the rear elbow going to make on getting around on a ball in time to hit it?

.

Its not a question of getting the swing around in time, anyone can do that, it is a question of delaying the committment as long as possible, its for pitch discrimination, A 60 mph pitch is moving at 88 ft/sec. It takes less than 1/2 sec to get to the batter from the release point. The benefit 0f .05 + sec off of a swing can allow the batter to have the ball 4-8 ft closer to them before committing to a pitch.

 

[Mark H]

I understand what Ziggy was trying to display with the clip of Vlad. My problem with this is as I stated in my previous post. More often than not, if I would try and teach a young hitter to do what Vlad is doing in that clip, they would not get the scapula complex loaded. They would counter rotate instead trying make that move with the elbow down. They then come around the corner with that elbow in and slide into the bat drag position.

I've tried this on several of my students and it didn't work. Started seeing way too many pop ups. Based on my own experience. I also feel like I can get the scapula loaded into a much stronger position. With that elbow up. If it works for Pujols it cant be all that bad can it? I don't see him having timing issues and being slow getting to the ball.

Dana

I'm fine with that.

 

[jimginas]

I have another coach that says the same thing... driving me nuts.
Here is our latest conversation;

Him - I would rather make the defense have to make 3 plays (fielding the ground ball, throwing to base, baseman catching), than to catch a fly ball.

That's a line I use when talking about runner(s) at 3B (or 2B and 3B) and less then 2 out. OFTEN times in that situation, if you look at your score books, you'll see batter's strikeout or infield fly popout, so I used to teach to hit down on the ball - intentional groundballs - relaxed swings hitting the top of the ball / easier to coordinate this contact because she wasn't pulling her head as she HAD to see the barrel hit the top of the ball. What I found was putting the ball on the ground with runners at 3B (or 2B and 3rd) created a lot of pressure on defense. Good chance the run scores and the runner at 2B makes 3B. ** IF the run DOESN'T score, runner at 3B and BR will steal 2B anyway, so same as if infield held runner at 3B and got out at 1B, EXCEPT we made them make a TAG play at the plate.
*** Additionally, OFTEN times, less then 2 out and infield is playing up/LESS Range and because the batter didn't try so hard, and was looking to hit a soft grounder, ball got through for a hit ANYWAY!
I actually used to practice ONE BUCKET of INTENTIONAL groundballs, where we would hit ANYWHERE to the INFIELD except pitcher...

BUT that was my strategy for runner(s) at 3B (or 2B and 3B) and less then 2 out, but NOT in general. In general, we are looking to hit hard line drives. Not grounders, not popouts!
--I've gotten away from teaching that at higher levels, BUT IF I had a 14U and below team, would teach that again! (Its a strategy that works at younger levels and teaching the girls to be coordinated and using what defense gives you, plus greater confidence on her making contact, EMPHASIZED by success is why I like this strategy, NOT MUCH different then dropping a drag bunt or soft-slap.

 

[Mark H]

I'd prefer you teach a push bunt or some such.

 

[jimginas]

I'd prefer you teach a push bunt or some such.

Mark, I'm a huge fan of Push Bunt, actually all SHORT ball. I'm still a believer that as long as the bases are 60", short ball keeps defenses playing DEFENSIVELY.
(Actually learned Push Bunt from a clinic Tony Rico was at years back. We were talking about Fake-Bunt-Hit Away strategy and he recommended Push Bunt.) You have to have a team committed not only to devoting time to learn and practice bunting (SAC / DRAG / Push bunt, Fake-Bunt-Hit-Away, etc, etc..), BUT then actually use these tools based on what defense gives you. Unfortunately, I see teams say they can do all, but almost NEVER use any in games. Far too many coaches I see that swing away EVERY BATTER - EVERY GAME... then they don't understand why their girls can't bunt and why defense just sits back deep in the dirt and fields ground balls.

 

[kls_hittingacademy]

That's a line I use when talking about runner(s) at 3B (or 2B and 3B) and less then 2 out. OFTEN times in that situation, if you look at your score books, you'll see batter's strikeout or infield fly popout, so I used to teach to hit down on the ball - intentional groundballs

What age group are you talking about? 8-14 year olds you can get away with it, once you get into the older groups the pitching becomes so much better, hitting spots dictating hitting the ground ball. That is what the defense is counting on.

 

[CoachKevin]

That's a line I use when talking about runner(s) at 3B (or 2B and 3B) and less then 2 out. OFTEN times in that situation, if you look at your score books, you'll see batter's strikeout or infield fly popout, so I used to teach to hit down on the ball - intentional groundballs - relaxed swings hitting the top of the ball / easier to coordinate this contact because she wasn't pulling her head as she HAD to see the barrel hit the top of the ball. What I found was putting the ball on the ground with runners at 3B (or 2B and 3rd) created a lot of pressure on defense. Good chance the run scores and the runner at 2B makes 3B. ** IF the run DOESN'T score, runner at 3B and BR will steal 2B anyway, so same as if infield held runner at 3B and got out at 1B, EXCEPT we made them make a TAG play at the plate.
*** Additionally, OFTEN times, less then 2 out and infield is playing up/LESS Range and because the batter didn't try so hard, and was looking to hit a soft grounder, ball got through for a hit ANYWAY!
I actually used to practice ONE BUCKET of INTENTIONAL groundballs, where we would hit ANYWHERE to the INFIELD except pitcher...

BUT that was my strategy for runner(s) at 3B (or 2B and 3B) and less then 2 out, but NOT in general. In general, we are looking to hit hard line drives. Not grounders, not popouts!
--I've gotten away from teaching that at higher levels, BUT IF I had a 14U and below team, would teach that again! (Its a strategy that works at younger levels and teaching the girls to be coordinated and using what defense gives you, plus greater confidence on her making contact, EMPHASIZED by success is why I like this strategy, NOT MUCH different then dropping a drag bunt or soft-slap.

And my point to him has always been; Why teach them 1 way when they are young, just to have to change everything when they get older? Wouldn't it be better served to teach them the proper way first?

Just because your a rotational type hitter doesn't mean you are always going to hit a flyball or a pop up, seen many a ground ball hit by players.