Cheating or Aggressive Base Running?

[The Man In Blue]

Since I mentioned it in another thread, I suppose I should post it here.

After researching this play and learning more about the history, I feel comfortable changing my initial position and going with an immediate ejection of the coach and player. There is enough history to show the play has been popularized on the internet and weighed in on by different associations that I personally would not be able to give the benefit of doubt now. I can still see how another umpire without that deep dive still would want to err on the side of caution.

There still is no rule allowing the runner to be called out without an appeal.

 

[Lemond]

Thinking back to over the summer when we had a possibly related scenario. Interested in thoughts on this:

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, less than 2 outs. B3 bunts down 3b line. F5 fields ball, checks R1 back to third. R2 motors to 3b as F5 makes the throw to first to retire B/R. R1 breaks to home on the throw, now with R2 trailing immediately behind.

F3 completes the out at 1B, and turns the throw to home. F2 is mildly interfered with while receiving the throw from F3 (no call from PU, single umpire game, and not a horrible no-call, as F2 really should have come up with the ball in this case, but it appeared that this was the intent of the obviously designed play). Both runs score as the catcher retrieves the missed ball.

We poorly executed the reaction to this play, but it seemed like it was intentionally designed to score R2 in a close game, or both runners if the got a lucky break, and the interference at home by R2 also seemed intentional, as if the throw from 1st had been caught, there was no way for either runner to have scored without it.

In the spirit on the OP, I was watching this play unfold from directly behind home plate with a good view down the 3b line, and can see it vividly in my memory, and I have NO idea if R2 even came close to touching third! All of my attention, as with everyone else, was following the ball.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Thinking back to over the summer when we had a possibly related scenario. Interested in thoughts on this:

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, less than 2 outs. B3 bunts down 3b line. F5 fields ball, checks R1 back to third. R2 motors to 3b as F5 makes the throw to first to retire B/R. R1 breaks to home on the throw, now with R2 trailing immediately behind.

F3 completes the out at 1B, and turns the throw to home. F2 is mildly interfered with while receiving the throw from F3 (no call from PU, single umpire game, and not a horrible no-call, as F2 really should have come up with the ball in this case, but it appeared that this was the intent of the obviously designed play). Both runs score as the catcher retrieves the missed ball.

We poorly executed the reaction to this play, but it seemed like it was intentionally designed to score R2 in a close game, or both runners if the got a lucky break, and the interference at home by R2 also seemed intentional, as if the throw from 1st had been caught, there was no way for either runner to have scored without it.

In the spirit on the OP, I was watching this play unfold from directly behind home plate with a good view down the 3b line, and can see it vividly in my memory, and I have NO idea if R2 even came close to touching third! All of my attention, as with everyone else, was following the ball.

I can see this happening and not being a designed play, just an over hyped runner not looking ahead. But as a designed play, I like it.

 

[Lemond]

As long as it’s clean, I agree.

 

[JOHNN]

I am not in any way saying that I agree with this play but some of the holier than thou responses about this situation (not on here but on twitter and FB) are just over the top. Either way it looks like the social media mob got what they were hoping for. Back to the drawing board on finding something else for them to be offended by...

Malcolm softball coach's contract not renewed

 

[Rolling Hard]

I am not in any way saying that I agree with this play but some of the holier than thou responses about this situation (not on here but on twitter and FB) are just over the top. Either way it looks like the social media mob got what they were hoping for. Back to the drawing board on finding something else for them to be offended by...

Malcolm softball coach's contract not renewed

He has nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror.

 

[The Man In Blue]

He has nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror.

After reading the article it seems to me the guy in his mirror only gets the credit -- everybody else gets the blame. He's the real victim here.

"A Malcolm High School softball coach says a social media storm over a controversial play he drew up at last week's state tournament cost him his job."

"Meyer, who does not work at the school and shares coaching duties with another person, said he was technically in charge of the team and took the fall for the play executed during the state tournament."

"Meyer, who played NCAA Division I collegiate baseball, said the play has been around "for years." He learned it himself as a high school freshman in 1989."

"Meyer said he replied to Chvatal via tweet in an attempt to shift the blame from the base runner to himself: "Thanks for noticing a well designed play. Appreciate the shout out."

"The Clippers, who eventually lost to Bishop Neumann 7-6 and went 1-2 in the tournament, practiced the play, Meyer said, but it wasn't executed exactly to plan. 'We have a young girl who got excited,' he said."

"Ultimately, Meyer feels he won't be able to find another coaching position despite leading Malcolm to multiple state appearances over his six years at the helm. Meyer previously coached at Lincoln North Star. 'I love coaching softball,' he said. 'I'll never be able to do that again.'"

 

[JOHNN]

He has nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror.

I definitely agree he is ultimately the one to blame, but I dont agree with the vitriol people seem to lash out toward others over something like this. I feel he shouldve been prepared to be reprimanded but I dont agree with losing his job over this like so many people that were salivating at the prospect of happening. At what point does the entire body of work supersede a single incident?

 

[radness]

I definitely agree he is ultimately the one to blame, but I dont agree with the vitriol people seem to lash out toward others over something like this. I feel he shouldve been prepared to be reprimanded but I dont agree with losing his job over this like so many people that were salivating at the prospect of happening.

At what point does the entire body of work supersede a single incident?

Disgracing a program comes in different forms. Guess this way found itself on the list.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Which play is worse. The third base coach asking the 3rd baseman to toss him the ball and then sidestepping the live ball and sending runner home OR the play this guy got fired for?
I think the one this guy got fired for because it involved teaching players to cheat. Both plays deserve punishment.