practice bat drag- before / after

[tom.guerry]

USING MOTIONANALYSIS

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

There are many devices out there, which I am sure you are aware of that allow an athlete or coach to measure bat speed at a given point (typically in MPH). But nothing that allows you to measure the acceleration and deceleration of the bat and body (in degrees per second), except our technology. That is why I am trying to get the message out there to you and to others that we need to take a much closer look at what happens with the body and the segmental speed gains on the way to the bat.

All of this data comes from 4 sensors, strategically placed on the athlete, which provide "objective measurements" and requires very little interpretation from me. We see the hips, upper torso, head, bat and bottom hand. We don't have to see the legs and arms to know the impact that certain positions of those body parts have on the body. The legs impact the hips, upper torso, which impacts the arms, hands, bat and head.

The indisputable facts are only what we report about the athlete. Power leaks, acceleration/deceleration in the forward swings, swing tempo, wrist set angle (casting), body positions throughout the swing. The sensors collect this data and we put it into a report. This is what we can tell an athlete. The athlete and their coach can decide what is ideal for the athlete. We do however identify physical limitations in strength, power, flexibility, and other physical components.

Many hitting techniques or drills can compound an athlete's problems. We only identify the athletes characteristics and make recomendations based on a comparison to an expected data range, which many would agree are consistent in the hitters who have good technique. This does not mean comparisons to only MLB or Olympic athletes. There are some who do not have good technique, but make the most of their swing and to some extent duplicate it. Most of our data is captured from hitting off a tee. If you can't have a good swing their, you won't when the ball is coming at 95 or 65 for that matter. (We understand that tempo will change with live pitching or soft toss).

We are searching for the best swings we can find. This is part of our research program. Athletes can be added to our database for free. We want as many as possible.

Our research and test is designed to show an athlete not how to have the perfect swing in comparison to McGwire, Bonds, Griffey, Garciaparra, or any other athlete. It is merely a guage to identify exactly what the athlete is doing. What ever you teach as an instructor, shows up, linear or rotational.


As I have stated before our analysis is showing that athletes are not doing what we think they are doing. Because I have studied looked at over 10,000 swings in the last year (with specific detailed data), I can justify any claim that we make.

I have spend the last year researching swing mechanics (analyzing over 10,000 athletes of all ages) and have come to some astonishing conclusions.

Number one is that athlete are doing exactly what they are being doing taught, whether it is right or wrong.

Second, is that athletes are not being taught correctly. (Something I am sure you have seen from your work. More importantly, the instructors are looking at the results of a specific action and forcing athletes to emphasize that result. Instead of looking at the cause of the action and teaching to the aspect of the swing.

I am not saying that over 10,000 coaches out there are wrong, just that they have focused on the wrong thing. Our technology (3D-skillcheck, which can be found at www.skilltechnologies.com) has allowed us to identify specific physical characteristics in the swing including hip, torso, arm/hand, and bat angular acceleration. Identify joint angles (accurately, no guessing as is the case with video), and much more. I can tell you if what an athlete does or a coach teaches is efficient and in the best interests of the athlete based on the physical strengths and weaknesses of the athlete.

There are many factors that go into the swing and believe it or not technique only goes so far. An athlete who is in better physical shape, with more athletic ability, balance, stability, and other physical strengths, will always produce better results that the other athlete (all other things being equal--vision, pitch, mind)

 

[tom.guerry]

EXPECTED SPEED GAINS WITH GOOD SUMMATION


Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

For starters, the hitter takes a stance in any position (this position is random and stylistic and should not be considered the stance because it varies so much from each player). This position is comfortable and allows them them to prepare for the first phase of the swing (negative move) often referred to as loading, or wind up or whatever terminology you want to use. In this loading phase, which many of you call a backwards weight shift, the best athletes have a slight change in the position of the hips and shoulders, closing to a position of approximately 25 degrees of the hips and 40 degrees of the shoulders {X-Factor is now approximately 15} (This is accurate to 1mm)

The forward swing is then initiated at the ground with the application of force to the back foot. As force is applied to the back foot, it creates a linear shift of weight, at the same time, their is a release of rotational energy around (rotating) from the front foot up to the hip of the front leg (the heal of which has dropped during the linear/rotational shift, to provide a solid front side to hit against). At this point there is an X-factor stretch of approximately 12 degrees (x-factor stretch is an increase in the degree of separation between the hips and shoulders). Epstein, is slightly wrong on X-factor, too much can be a bad thing. Especially if you do not have the abdominal recovery strength to go with the flexabilty it takes to create a large x-factor. But x-factor is an important part of the swing.

During this first phase of the swing the forward swing there is an expected angular speed gain (progressive speed gain) of approximately 200 degrees per second from the hips to the upper torso, as the hips rotate and peak to a speed of 550 d/sec, and upper torso rotates and peaks milliseconds later at a speed of 750 d/sec. There is an additional speed gain of approximately 250 d/sec from the upper torso to the arms (which reach a speed of 1000 d/sec milliseconds after the upper torso). This is followed by a significantly higher gain of 1000 d/sec from the arms to the bat as the bat releases at a speed of over 2000 degrees per second. Good athlete = 550>750>1000=2000 degrees per second (rotational bat speed)

This is an example of a poor athletic sequence (but can still be successful if the choose the right pitches).... If an athlete has gains that are higher in the early phases, the arms to bat gain is signicifantly lower (Example: 300, 300, 500 (typically looks like hips=600, Upper torso= 900, Arms=1200, Bat=1700) this would indicate a power leak or lack of appropriate pacing through the swing. (Like a 400 meter runner who runs the first 100 meters in 9.9 seconds and finishes in 50 seconds) the pace or rythm/timing is off and causes a loss of energy at the finish.

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

According to Phil Cheetham, our founder and one of the country's leading biomechanical engineers, our findings show a direct relationship to the controlled increase in speed efficiently through each segment, ultimately impacting bat speed.

If the speed gain from the hips to the upper torso is in the correct range (not too high or low), there is an expectation of speed gain from the uppertoso to the arms and the arms to the bat.

For example if I get a speed gain of 200 degrees per second (dps) from my hips to my upper toso, I would expect to get a similar gain, 200 dps from my upper torso to my arms. I would then expect a large gain from my arms to my bat (800 dps or more). But if I release a large amount of energy during either or those first two segments, that energy cannot be transferred to my bat.

Example: I gain 300 dps from hips to uppertorso, and gain 300 dps from my uppertorso to arms, I may only gain 450 dps from my arms to my bat, resulting in a lower bat speed. That loss is only 150 dps. But 150 dps is approximately 10% of the athlete's pre-contact bat speed.

Equally important to the acceleration of the segments is the deceleration of each segment at the appropriate time. If I cannot decelerate each segment effectively, I will allow that segment to reach a higher speed. In essence, we would call this a power leak.

The athlete with this power leak will appear to the naked eye to have a pretty fast and effective swing. But in our findings that athlete could be better if the athlete learned to control their body and the release of energy from one segment to the next at the right time.

Your best contact hitters (Tony Gwynn and others) would be efficient decelerators, not accelerators. It is their use of deceleration that allows them to reach high speed gains and make adjustments to the pitch they are thrown.

I spoke with Pat Murphy before the Holidays as we were getting ready to analyze some of his players and he said, "I wonder if it's bat speed or stability at contact the is more important to a hitter?" My response, "Stability." To which he replied, "I would agree. Sometimes I see my guys at the plate with one foot in the box and ready to go, while the other foot is getting ready to bail out. I keep telling them to just dig in and stand your ground, focing them to be more stable."

Jack, if an athlete has generated a significant amount of bat speed but cannot decelerate effectively, they will not be able to maximize that speed. In essence, they will have sacrificed control for the "appearance" of speed.

In our findings, it is not just the raw bat speed but the acceleration/deceleration of the bat and each segment before it, and when the bat reaches maximum speed during the forward swing that are important.

Most of the athletes we have tested had a significantly higher bat speed shortly after contact. This was related to the wrist roll, which occurred after the bat reached an initial peak in bat speed at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees before contact. At this point the force which generated the first peak in speed is no longer acting on the bat to carry it through the hitting zone. (Power was lost through earlier leaks). The athlete must now try to impart more force to the bat to get it moving again. At this point, it can only be done by rolling the wrists, prematurely.

Typically, when an athlete reaches bat speed early, it forces a side bend to the trailing side. Remember, athletes stand in such a way that will allow them to remain in a good athletic position throughout their swing. This athletic position can only be maintained if the maximum amount of speed to the bat is released at the point (or just after) the bat makes contact with the ball. So if you see an athlete with excessive lean early or late in their swing, that is probably the point where the bat reaches a large peak in speed and as a result was at its heaviest weight.

 

[tom.guerry]

INSIDE VS OUTSIDE LOCATION

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

From our data we have found the if the timing is right, the position of the hips and torso vary from inside to outside. For our tests, we set up a tee at an ideal position for contact in the middle of the players strike zone. The player swings at the ball on the tee (which Major League Players do on a daily basis as part of their warm up routine).

With respect to the acceleration and deceleration in the forward swing, as the player swings the bat the hips slightly lead the sequence, followed immediately by the combined acceleration of the shoulders, arms or hands, and the bat. The hips reach maximum acceleration between 510 and 585 degrees per second of rotation, followed by the shoulders (upper torso) 700 to 900 degrees per second, followed by the hands/arms, 900 to 1150 degrees per second, followed by the bat release speed of between 1750 to 2300 degrees per second. Done efficiently, the hips reach maximum rotation (on a middle plate pitch) when the bat is perpendicular to the straight line from the pitcher. This means at hip rotation of 70 to 85 degrees of rotation, the shoulders at this point rotate to approximately 65 to 80 degrees or rotation. If the shoulders for example were at 85 and the hips at 80, this would indicate that the tension (often referred to by many as torque)between the hips and shoulders, generated from the initial swing phase had been completely released and now the abdominals, which early in the swing were a conducting station the energy (torque) generated from the ground up, must now act to decelerate the upper torso. This in an indication that the power has been released.

If this occurs before contact, we see an athlete with an early peak in bat speed (before contact) because no more energy from the large muscles is left to be transferred to the bat. If an athlete reaches this point too early in the swing, the bat can no longer benefit from the "energy" generated during the swing. The athlete must now attempt to release a new source of energy to the bat, largely from the energy that has been stored in the wrists, provided that energy has not been released as well through bat casting. If you can imagine the amount of energy that is created as an athlete attempts to roll the wrists, we see a small deceleration of the hands, followed immediately by a spike in bat speed usually much higher than the previous bat speed peak.

If the latter occurs during the swing, the athlete, loses control of the bat and fights to maintain balance. This is evidenced by a significant side bend (over 20 degrees to the trailing side). To regain balance and not loose complete control of the swing, the athlete rolls the wrists to generate additional bat speed, quickly moving the bat and those distributed forces around the body (rotation not linear).

On an inside pitch, this "near locking" of the upper torso and hips occurs with the hips at 92 to 100 degrees. On an oiuside pitch, this can occur as early as 65 to 72 degrees. The shoulders should lag by approximately 5 degrees on an inside pitch and 10 degrees on an outside pitch. This amounts to less than an inch of separation, but can be the difference between a pop up/weak grounder and a hard hit line drive. Baseball and softball are not games of inches, but instead games of degrees. Meaning the margin of error is much smaller than an inch.

However, the two most common problems we see in athletes are premature wrist roll and an over emphasis on back foot rotation (But the two problems are related and can cause numerous other problems). Athletes who prematurely rotate their back foot (making this an active instead of passive movement), have many problems during the swing. Don't get me wrong an athlete can perfect this technique and perform very well in a game, but they are exposed on many pitches and different situations. It has a major impact on timing and the sequence. I could go on, but I hope this answers your question Jack.

TROUBLE WITH CLOSED HIPS

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

 

[tom.guerry]

EXAMPLE OF TESTING HUDGENS PLAYERS (OAKLAND A'S)

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

I am in Florida, working with a few pro teams and collegiate teams under a consulting agreement. I have recently spent three hours with Dave, and I can attest to what he is teaching. He is an advocate of "throw hands and hips will take care of themselves. That is an effective teaching cue. however, it also lends itself to a linear approach. Friday, our technicians will be adding the swings of over 60 Oakland players to our database. I have already analyzed the swings of a couple of Dave's players. As we continue our research, it will help some instructors see the impact of what they are teaching players. I can't tell you if it is the right way or the wrong way. There are many good instructors out there who believe what they are teaching and that it the most positive thing that can happen for an instructor. Once you believe, you can get your players to believe. And success at the plate will follow. ….

Dave's team was analyzed by our Founder Phil Cheetham and some of our technicians yesterday. He quickly grasped the reporting capabilities of our program. The A's pitching coaches will begin to use our analysis system with biofeedback to help get their players ready for games and to ensure the proper level of intensity during their warmup. I will see Dave again on Tuesday to review all of his players with him, I am sure he will see things that I don't see. That will help us all.

And yes we have discussed players of his we analyzed over two weeks ago. Any player can change at any age if they know exactly what they need to improve. If Benito wanted to improve (regardless of age and 17 yrs of MLB experience) he could change. Some one once told me that if I could make one change in my swing, and it allowed me hit more consistently 30, 50 , or 100 batting points higher, or hit one more home run in a clutch situation, I would change it in a heartbeat. (Luis Gonzalez).


BAT WEIGHT, BALANCE, CANDREA/ARIZONA

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum


ROBIN: I have four girls on my travel team that swing 34" bats. None of them "cast" their bats. When you have good disciple to keep your hands close to your body with your turn you can swing it really well. Coach Candrea lets them swing 34" bats because they can - not because he can't find shorter ones. There are shorter and lighter bats in any number of manufacturers that sponsor the college teams. My daugher is 15 and swings a 34" 27oz. bat and hit .476 over our fall-ball season. You just have to be in control of your body.Again, they hear they can't and usually don't get coached to try. It's a shame.

ZIG: This will cause your daughter to cast the bat. There is no reason for a girl to swing a 34 inch bat unless she is 6 ft 4in tall 190 lbs. and can do 3 sets of 15 pullups, and has a vertical leap of 34 inches. There are not many girls strong enough to swing that bat, regardless of its weight. I guarantee it. And I'll be glad to prove it.

Thats great if you have four girls that are strong enough with good balance and have no side bend to their trailing side (right side for right handed hitters). That means they have good balance. BAtting averages in softball without an explanation of what kind of pitching it is done against isn't an indicator of how well an athlete swings. Using our biomechanical analysis technology, I have analyzed over 10,000 athletes in the last year. I have spent the last 15 years developing true functional strength and conditioning programs for athletes. 95% of those athletes lack the simplest physical component that must be present in order to swing a bat at any length. That component is balance. So base upon my research and random sampling, I can conclude that most athletes not just girls need to focus on developing their body's physical components while they try to develop their technique.

I have analyzed Candrea's athletes also and they do not have perfect swings. They do what they do better than most athletes out there because they are some of the strongest and most stable athletes that we analyzed. Not because they have the perfect swing or anything close in fact only one of his athletes did not exhibit any flaws related to balance and strength. But she was 5-10, 220 pounds. She swung a 34 inch bat, but only half of the other girls swung a bat that length.

If your daughter swings a 34 inch bat the centrifugal forces increase the weight of the bat throughout her swing. At the beginnig of her swing swing the bat may weigh 27 ozs, but by the time she gets half way to contact, the weight(feel) of the rotational forces can make the bat feel like it weighs well over 100lbs depending upon her speed and acceleration. Now can your daughter strong enough to support that. If you stand balance with your arms complete relaxed at your side, and begin to twist back and forth allowing the rotational forces to lift the arms, you will get a tingling sensation in your finger tips. The faster you go, the higher your arms go, and the greater the sensation in your finger tips. Also the harder it is to stabilize your lower body. Now take the bat put it in your hands and done correctly, the tingling (weight) shifts to the end of the bat, moving the distributed weight farther away from your center of mass. This forces the body to now have to work 3 to 5 times as hard to stabilize. If your daughter has a significant amount of side bend, this is related to the distributed weight to the end of the bat. I would be very surprised if she did not have a significant amount of side bend based upon your description of her physical characteristics and the way even many MLB players and coaches teach the swing.

Does your daughter lean to the inside greater that 15 degrees and if not, how do you know?

By the way, all athletes who have premature wrist roll have gotten long early in their swing. The distance from the hands to the body has gotten out to over six inches from the body or the angle has increased to over 50 degrees. If this happens early in the swing (because the athlete is thinking of getting the hands to the ball) the athlete will reach maximum bat acceleration. The wrist will roll because the arms have now fully extended. In order to continue their rotational path, the wrists must roll and now are being acted upon by the forces of the body. This is often mistaken by some coaches as great bat speed or release of the bat. The bat releases like a whip, it does not roll on release. The roll is a part of follow through. Just what are we really teaching.

There certain biomechanical and physics principles that are inherent in human movement. We have an ideal model range. Meaning the best of the best fall within certain postural and physical parameters in reference to their bat acceleration, deceleration, posture, flexiblity, wrist angle, spine angle and numerous other swing aspects.

A loss of balance occurs when an individual no longer controls controls where they are in time or space with relationship to the ground or an object on which they are standing. This can occur in the swing when the weight is transferred to the front or back of the front foot or to the front or back of the rear foot. Lower body stability can be affected by the strength and flexibility of the hamstrings and glutes. If the glutes or hamstrings are in a position where they are unlikely to complete a solid contraction (back leg bend or internal rotation of the back leg) the glutes and or hamstrings are unable to perform their job of stabilization of the body during the swing.

 

[skeptic]

There must be a tree falling in the forest somewhere. . . .

 

[JC heir]

Ha ha skeptic

YouTube - real axmen

 

[Hitter]

Ha ha skeptic

YouTube - real axmen

Lane I think your top hand torque could be improved and most certainly the forearm pivot is horrible coming to chain lag....but the chain saw is sharp!

 

[tom.guerry]

skeppie -

Good to hear from you again. Where's old batsic ?

This stuff is really hard to understand hunh ?

 

[Hitter]

Tom lets just take this one piece you offer and look at it more closely....

"There certain biomechanical and physics principles that are inherent in human movement. We have an ideal model range. Meaning the best of the best fall within certain postural and physical parameters in reference to their bat acceleration, deceleration, posture, flexiblity, wrist angle, spine angle and numerous other swing aspects."

So we know going into this that the female balances differently because of their spine alignment and for the most part they have no clue what the wrist do because of neuro muscular skills they may have never even been exposed to! Now understand each day we do not deal with the best of the best however we try to make improvements so they will continue to play the sport and have fun and not get hurt while playing it!

"A loss of balance occurs when an individual no longer controls controls where they are in time or space with relationship to the ground or an object on which they are standing. This can occur in the swing when the weight is transferred to the front or back of the front foot or to the front or back of the rear foot. Lower body stability can be affected by the strength and flexibility of the hamstrings and glutes. If the glutes or hamstrings are in a position where they are unlikely to complete a solid contraction (back leg bend or internal rotation of the back leg) the glutes and or hamstrings are unable to perform their job of stabilization of the body during the swing."

A loss of balance occurs...This is not real difficult to prove and in fact we teach it. Balance can only be taught one way, bend at the waist and soften the knees otherwise you can not load the core and you can test for it. Certified Trainers term it hip hinge angle and kinesiologist term it as sequential core loading. We teach our students to stand up on their tip roes and they will be stable. Then I predict they will be unstable and have them close their eyes and repeat and they loose their balance. We explain when the eyes can see the horizon the thousands of hairs in the inner ear are moving like waves in the ocean and are sending signals to the brain to the deep joints and tendons in the body so we can balance. This is why we teach a simple knee cock and transferring of the weight to the inside of the back leg and do this in front of a mirror so they can see if they leaned backwards or if their head moved. When we pick up the lead foot it is just so the foot clears the ground and we step on the inside edge of the lead foot or what is termed eversion so our weight shift does not come to a sudden stop. We have them put their shoulder up against the wall and put both feet directly under them and ask them to pick up the foot away from the wall and hold it up. They can not do it and feel they can not shift their weight from one leg to the other because they can not move their shoulders. We also explain when they walk the baby toes touches the ground first and progress to the big toe to balance and stabilize our foot and ankle. This is why we step using eversion so the hip will continue to move and not stop. The weight is controlled by the flex in the front knee and we have used pressure plates on the ground to confirm the weight distribution was 50 50 on a small group.

Lower body stability can be affected by the strength and flexibility of the hamstrings and glutes....so we know from many studies the hamstring on the females are under developed and are a huge reason they have instability in the knee effecting the ACL. We also know their glutes do not fire the knee upon landing however they can be taught this using the PEP program from Santa Monica Sports Med. So again this puts the female at risk and at a disadvantage.We also understand because the female hips are wider this adds to the stress at the knee if they stride with the heel towards the pitcher and the knee is stiff upon landing.

You presented a ton of information however I wonder how many parents understand it? Then how would they teach it?

Someone emailed me you are an ENT Doctor...how do you teach how to track a ball?

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

Howard -

I like consistent swing balance and a soft-hard-soft focus.

For background, Nyman has some good info here:

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