practice bat drag- before / after

[Chris O'Leary]

Just to be clear, when I talk about quickness, I am talking about hitters.

How would you define quickness?

Quickness is the time, usually measured in the number of frames, it takes a hitter's bat head to go from their set-up position to the Point Of Contact.

If it were just in frames then tell me exactly what I must do in my swing mechanics to become quicker to reduce the frame count.

Improving quickness involves pretty standard stuff, including staying compact and keeping the hands inside the ball, swinging from the core and not the arms, and not doing things like dragging the bat head and/or casting the bat or throwing the hands at the ball.

How can you measure quickness?

Frame counts are the most objective measure.

How do I get my bat on the plane of the pitch quickly and keep it there longer to match the plane of the pitch?

it is possible to increase the depth of the contact zone by properly-timed extension, which is how guys like Pujols often adjust to sliders and change-ups.

Do I have to be quick to the ball or learn how to be on time and adjust to the speed of the ball and the pitchers timing and rhythm of the delivery of the ball.

The quicker your swing, the later you can start it and the longer you have to read the pitch before committing. That also gives you more time to read the movement of the pitch.

I think there is a lot of ways to describe it however how do we measure it? Stop watches, radar guns and yes frame counting.

Frame counting is the best measure.

Radar guns only measure the speed of the bat head, not acceleration (how long it took to get up to that speed).

So is our goal to have as few frames as we can or to figure out what mechanics in a swing comprise the ability to reduce the number of frames?

Yes, within reason.

With a 4-frame swing, you're going to have to swing so hard that you're likely going to hurt your consistency.

I think that's why Pujols' bat speed is "only" 87. That lets him strike the balance of swinging hard enough to hit the ball far but still letting him square the ball up. IMO, that is why he can hit for both power and average. It may also be why he's underwhelming in home run derbies.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Both will work however at my level balance, swing mechanics, tracking the ball, timing and rhythm, weight shift, momentum and then we work on speed and quickness.

I agree with this sequence to a degree, except that mechanics are intimately related to quickness.

Also, at the higher levels everything else is a moot point if you don't have sufficient quickness.

 

[PEPPERS]

The previous year, the same daughter played in a winter clininc at a DI school in the Northeast. They got to go through a hitting clinic where the head coach showed them they should be fully extended AT CONTACT. I was baffled that this could happen at that level. So here I am telling my Daughter to ignore this DI coach too.

We were at our HS Softball Banquet, this fall GA schools play in the fall. One of the players mother who gives hitting and pitching lessons and coaches a middle school team. Demonstrates a swing to a parent and was showing full extension at contact and rolling the wrist. I resisted the urge to run over and say something, but DANG.

The post on bat speed and quickness, just thought I would mention that in the coaching clinic we were told to take the shortest path to the ball and once contact was made going long through the ball. Short to the ball and then long through it.

 

[Mark H]

We were at our HS Softball Banquet, this fall GA schools play in the fall. One of the players mother who gives hitting and pitching lessons and coaches a middle school team. Demonstrates a swing to a parent and was showing full extension at contact and rolling the wrist. I resisted the urge to run over and say something, but DANG.

You can have a lot of fun with people like that if you can start an email discussion with them on the premise of learning. Send them clips of elite hitters and tell them you are trying to understand their advice within the context of these elite hitter's game swings and you wonder if they could help you. Something they can step through frame by frame in quicktime or a series of stills from a gif would work well. They will probably lose interest quickly though and they won't be your friend after that. ;D

 

[Chris O'Leary]

We were at our HS Softball Banquet, this fall GA schools play in the fall. One of the players mother who gives hitting and pitching lessons and coaches a middle school team. Demonstrates a swing to a parent and was showing full extension at contact and rolling the wrist. I resisted the urge to run over and say something, but DANG.

People often don't believe me when I say that people teach making the Power V at the Point Of Contact, but as you found out they are out there.

I think a lot of this grew out of Charley Lau Sr.'s book.

The post on bat speed and quickness, just thought I would mention that in the coaching clinic we were told to take the shortest path to the ball and once contact was made going long through the ball. Short to the ball and then long through it.

IMO, if you are short to the ball, in the right way, long through the ball will take care of itself.

 

[Hitter]

Chris

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I have also seen the power V at contact taught and the swinging down is still popular as well as hitting the top of the ball. As I said in an earlier thread when I saw a Big Ten team all at once working on the fence drill ALL at the same time I just laughed out loud!

Howard

 

[Chris O'Leary]

As I said in an earlier thread when I saw a Big Ten team all at once working on the fence drill ALL at the same time I just laughed out loud!

I can't find this post, so I'd be interested in your perspective on the fence drill.

For me, it's one of those drills that makes logical sense, but when I look at the swings on film I'm not always thrilled with what I see.

 

[Hitter]

I can't find this post, so I'd be interested in your perspective on the fence drill.

For me, it's one of those drills that makes logical sense, but when I look at the swings on film I'm not always thrilled with what I see.

Chris

In my opinion it causes the shoulders to open too far and for every swing to rotate the belly button open or towards the pitcher. We say we want the belly button to be the indicator of rotating as needed as to outside, middle or inside and to release the barrel to the ball as depth in box.

If I stood belly button to belly button with you and place the bat in your belly button as if your belly button is the fence and I rotated my hips keeping my hands in the same position I will pull away from you. I would never want to put that concept into the mind of a hitter. Based on the location of the pitch, we want the hitter to rotate as needed and release the bat head to the ball based on the balls location and depth in box. I then demonstrate as a right handed hitter putting the bat in your belly button and ask you to raise your left arm and I start my swing and rotate as needed and put the bat in your ribs and push you or drive you away towards right center field. In my mind I have 6 to 8 inches of bat the fence is forcing me to move away from and that is not logical and I have never used the fence drill.I want the bat on the plane of the pitch and tilt and turn to do it. For me when I see a team practice this they will not hit an outside pitch with any power. Neither did the Big Ten team. Their swing was geared middle in.

This is a drill I feel very strongly about that promotes a bad visual concept and even worse, breaks down the mechanics of a swing. If the low and away and up and away pitch is a bread and butter mainstay pitch you better learn to hit it with better mechanics than using the fence drill.

Thanks Howard

 

[RichK]

Howard, I completely agree on the fence drill and have been reading your recent writings with great interest -- I even bought a piece of rope yesterday -- though I'm not taping fingers together on their grips yet ; >

That said, I did use the fence drill for a young group of girls we're just starting to teach the MLB pattern swing to -- just one time and with a slow-mo swing just to get them to begin to understand rotation. They don't believe it's possible and when they see it is rotation starts to sink in a bit. It's not something I'd want to do 50 swings in warmups if I had a D1 team, but I felt it started to help them feel some basic swing concepts they'd never thought about before. Maybe I'm wrong : >

That said, what do you think about slow-mo swings with a back-foot to a wall or net to get them to feel 45 degree bat angle and inside hands and hips leading shoulder rotation versus dropping the barrel and bat drag? Obviously, if they drop or drag-load they hit the net and feel that reinforcement. Again, just to get them to start feeling and thinking about their swings in new ways?

 

[Hitter]

Howard, I completely agree on the fence drill and have been reading your recent writings with great interest -- I even bought a piece of rope yesterday -- though I'm not taping fingers together on their grips yet ; >

That said, I did use the fence drill for a young group of girls we're just starting to teach the MLB pattern swing to -- just one time and with a slow-mo swing just to get them to begin to understand rotation. They don't believe it's possible and when they see it is rotation starts to sink in a bit. It's not something I'd want to do 50 swings in warmups if I had a D1 team, but I felt it started to help them feel some basic swing concepts they'd never thought about before. Maybe I'm wrong : >

That said, what do you think about slow-mo swings with a back-foot to a wall or net to get them to feel 45 degree bat angle and inside hands and hips leading shoulder rotation versus dropping the barrel and bat drag? Obviously, if they drop or drag-load they hit the net and feel that reinforcement. Again, just to get them to start feeling and thinking about their swings in new ways?

Richk

I will not and do not like the fence drill and have found other ways to teach without using it. I stated in a post why.

This is exactly why we teach them to throw first so they understand momentum and weight shift. After we teach them how to throw the next drill is to explain hitting is throwing and throwing is hitting, by showing how momentum and weight shift must be done and how it feels. We then do a two hand ball drill where if you are a right handed thrower. Inter lock the index finger of the bottom hand to the baby finger of the top hand and hold the ball in the top hand. Then stand next to the thrower so my left foot is against the edge of their back foot. We ask them to load and go to toe touch. Then slowly lead with their elbows and think the ball is the knob of the bat and throw the ball with both hands. This gets them thinking the elbows must work as unit. After they throw point out they did not squish the bug! Put a bat in their hand quickly and ask them to do it again however DO NOT stand next to them and let them hit again. It makes a difference as we try to build the swing from the ground up.

Then use the rope...I have done this over the phone using a belt as a rope so there is nothing particular about the rope other than it is the thick soft rope from Home Depot. The way we described using the rope is what is important. I have said it many times I do not use the elite MLB swing pattern...I use the elite NPF swing pattern as I work mostly with girls now however I had three boys in the Frontier league and one with a Minor league contract with the White Sox's.

The rope allows the feeling of the elbows working together and that is a push pull feeling, however it has been my experience the pull is more important to feel in the first stage of learning the swing. Manually adjust them so you get the elbows where you want them to be at bat lag. With a little tension on the rope they begin to feel bat lag. Focus on leading with the knob of the bat. One parent put a happy face sticker on the knob of the bat so when his daughter was working in front of a mirror she had to see the happy face otherwise she was probably casting. There is a whole team now with happy face stickers on the bats.The tilt and turn really makes a difference as to seeing the happy face and becomes a teaching point when teaching how to direct the flight of the ball. Now let them swing their bat and explain the knob of the bat is inside the path of the ball. It is very important that as they are beginning to swing with the rope, think slow to load, soft to step and land on a flexed front leg and that the hands separated rearward slightly. Now as the back elbow begins to lower, the lead elbow is going forward and up like it is going up a ramp and as the hands start to pass the edge of the back shoulder the shoulder begin to tilt and turn. This key feeling is what the rope is for and they are directing the knotted end inside the path of a ball that is being hit up the middle as that is the pitch we teach first to demonstrate bat control.

Yes we use slow motion and that came from my younger days of using martial arts. Once they use the rope we have them hit off the tee with a bat, measure off from the plate, get your stance width, bend at the waist and soften the knees, top of the hands to the top of the shoulder minimum and no higher than the ear hole of the helmet. Before you get excited I could care less what the MLB person looks like! We are teaching kids the mechanics of the swing first not the style of the swing. What I think is laughable whenever we talk about the MLB swing pattern is or is not, is that there are only 800 plus playing the game at the highest level and probably 20 that are really the best and then who ever you think is the best and you pick or they pick that person and defend they way they swing as THE best of the best! They are kids we are teaching that have varying skill levels, learning disabilities, single parents, no parents and the list goes on.

Sorry I get passionate about some of the examples used or the way it is explained...As we begin our swing explain the movie Matrix where everything was in slow motion and I will bend backwards or frontwards slowly and say I was dodging bullets however they get the idea of being slow and deliberate in their swing. Lets pick it up at separation as the back elbow lowers into the slot the lead elbow is moving forward and up at a slight angle and we begin to turn and tilt. Keep the top hand ( I described what and how we grip in another thread) and elbow stacked directly over each other or what we say, staying strong on the back side. Make sure the back elbow clears the body completely as WE do not want it in close or too touch especially with the girls! Now stop at bat lag and you will feel it in the top hand forearm and this is static verses dynamic. Again I find it humorous to be talking THT, tip and rip, tilting the bat head forward or backwards. When you can feel the muscles in your forearm activate just by changing the direction to inside the path of the ball you are on the right track. It will be difficult to generate enough momentum from this static position and that is OK as we are working on hand path, so back up with the bat and allow the knob to lead and then go forward again and hit the ball into the net by releasing the forces in your wrist. Without centripetal forces being generated you will have to make a conscious effort to use the wrist. Keep repeating and then increase your efforts until finally you will be building the swing from the ground up.

As to the foot or feet up against the wall...I use a concrete bloc (more weight will not move) not a cinder block and place it behind their back foot side ways.There will not be any bug squishing! Then I use a unique tool, a 5 gallon bucket filled about 1/3 with concrete. Sand does not work etc, we are stepping into the side of the bucket so anything else will allow the bucket walls to give in or collapse slightly and I do not want that to happen. I use astro turf so I attached to the bottom of the bucket a round piece of plywood with several nails in it to prevent the bucket from sliding when we stride up against it. Once you have determined your stride distance place the bucket there. Now with the brick outside edge of the back foot and the bucket in front of you they load and stride with the lead edge of the foot up against the bucket so the baby toe and shoe is at an angle. Be sure the lead foot knee is flexed and you will see and feel the weight shift more inside the back leg. The front foot side of your foot will slide into heel plant and the front leg will firm up at contact and they should be angled up against the front leg not over it. As they swing you will start to see them firm up the lead leg at contact. Each kid is different and sometimes we just work on the back side with the block and other times both with the bucket and block. It depends on their athleticism.

The reason we use the 5 gallon bucket is no other surface I have tried will allow the gym shoe to slide down to heel plant as easily as the plastic on the gallon bucket. I have tried various types of Plexiglas, PVC pipe, sheet metal etc and the surface of the 5 gallon bucket works best for me. Also the rounded bucket allows for less surface friction of the edge of the foot so we can step at a slight angle during toe touch. The kids that step in the proverbial bucket can now stride to or kick the bucket.

Thanks Howard