I know nothing about pitching speeds. How much speed is needed to make a 12" ball rise, drop, curve etc. I do know it must spin. Is their a relation between spin/speed? More spin less speed vs. more speed less spin? These questions show my ignorance but got to learn somehow.
Pitching speeds
- Thread starter mm'spapa
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
I've heard 50+ is needed for the rise to be effective. Not sure I totally buy that if a kid can already throw 45, has a good drop and can get decent rise spin at lower ages/levels. I think the concern is that a high pitch that doesn't hang due to good spin/speed is gonna get hit.
Yep... 50-55+ mph is needed in order to get a rise to actually rise, less than that and the ball will just kinda fight gravity. Curves and screws will break at less than that, and a drop ball will have a noticeable break even at 40mph. This is why the drop ball is usually the first movement pitch for younger pitchers (gravity is helping). I use the drop ball as a first pitch with my young students. If they release too late the ball will simply perform as a fastball.
Thanks Ken, So spin is the key to movement? I have seen high level pitchers that can make a ball dance, but at 10u/12u I haven't seen nearly as much movement. Would you try to teach a young pitcher to spend more time on getting a lot of spin on the ball? Most kids don't need to be told to practice speed (that's all they think about).
The rise is a little different than other "movement" pitches. You can get a curve to bend more at slower speeds. Same with a drop; but with a drop, you also get gravity helping. The trick with the rise is to keep it from dropping and that takes both spin and speed. Many can get away with really bad spin, but overcome gravity with speed.
Last edited:
Its all good, plagiarize, paraphrase... tomato, tamoto
This is absolutely 100% wrong. If the spin is bad, the ball isn't going to move no matter how hard you throw it.
Spin has two components:
(1) Axis (the orientation of the spin--when viewed from the catcher, 12 to 6 for a drop, 6 to 12 for a rise)
(2) RPS (revolutions per second)
If the axis is wrong, the ball isn't going to move. If the RPS is too low, the ball isn't going to move.
Last edited:
100%? Absolutely?
I agree with this in regards to every pitch but the rise. Would I get more credit if I'd stated "less than perfect spin?"
To clarify, I haven't seen the perfect rise spin, yet. I'm sure it exists, but as far as I can tell, few can achieve it. Seems like most get a tilted and turned axis, but make up for the less-than-perfect spin with speed. Going back to the NASA simulator: the faster a ball moves, the less it breaks and drops if the spin remains constant. A drop ball thrown at 70 will drop less than a ball thrown at 55 with the same spin speed. A ball thrown with spiral spin will drop even less.
I understand that a rise will work best if thrown hard with good spin, but I just don't believe many get perfect spin and make up for it with speed.
I agree with this in regards to every pitch but the rise. Would I get more credit if I'd stated "less than perfect spin?"
To clarify, I haven't seen the perfect rise spin, yet. I'm sure it exists, but as far as I can tell, few can achieve it. Seems like most get a tilted and turned axis, but make up for the less-than-perfect spin with speed. Going back to the NASA simulator: the faster a ball moves, the less it breaks and drops if the spin remains constant. A drop ball thrown at 70 will drop less than a ball thrown at 55 with the same spin speed. A ball thrown with spiral spin will drop even less.
I understand that a rise will work best if thrown hard with good spin, but I just don't believe many get perfect spin and make up for it with speed.
Last edited:
mm'spapa,
If your DD has good form and control, I think a drop spin is a good step if she doesn't already have one. A change is another to get down. Once she has those pitches developed, start working on a rise spin. As sluggers said, get the axis as close to perpendicular to the direction of travel and the spin as straight up and down as possible. When she has decent control, spin and speed, add it to the toolbox.
If your DD has good form and control, I think a drop spin is a good step if she doesn't already have one. A change is another to get down. Once she has those pitches developed, start working on a rise spin. As sluggers said, get the axis as close to perpendicular to the direction of travel and the spin as straight up and down as possible. When she has decent control, spin and speed, add it to the toolbox.
Last edited:
