Pitching speeds from TPM 2012 Showcase

[Greenmonsters]

EP Dad--Starsnuffer is perhaps prone to hyperbole (something I would never do ), but...

During the CWS, the college players were scoring runs like crazy. During the the World Softball Championship, the same kids couldn't score a run against a pitcher who is throwing slower than the girls at CWS. A reasonable person should ask, "Why?"

The answer is that most of the pitchers at the CWS have marginal breaking pitches. So, they get hammered by good hitters. When those same hitters face a pitcher with a real breaking pitch, suddenly they can't hit it.

Daddies routinely brag here and at the ball park that their kid has four breaking pitches when in reality they don't have any. Daddies say, "She knows these pitches, but she can't throw them consistently." <---That means, "She can't throw a breaking pitch." If a pitcher can't get a pitch to break 90% of the time, then it is the same as not having one. It is worthless.

But, Daddies are more into having a bunch of poor breaking pitches than one good breaking pitch.

I don't know any pitcher that immediately started throwing a breaking pitch 100% effectively. I'm not too upset with 90% - its a lot better than 25% or 50% as long as the goal is to strive for 100%. And for reference, if a MLB P 'hangs' 1 CB a game - that's about 2 - 5%

 

[starsnuffer]

A lot of coaches/scouts use the rev-fire to measure spin. Rev-fire is a great tool, but it's only going to give you spin rate, not spin direction. You'll often see results of NFCA camps that post spin rates for various pitchers. Often the fastest pitchers have very similar spin rates for all of their pitches. This is because they often throw with a bullet or fastball spin no matter what the pitch is. Their pitches do not have the proper spin orientation. Daddy calls the inside fastball a screwball, the pitch where she steps 3 inches shorter and throws low is a drop ball, and that curve ball is when she steps towards third and throws that same pitch outside. Coaches read the results and say "hey that has good spin". Coach is happy, daddy is happy, and DD gets a scholarship to go throw the BP the college game has become.

-W

 

[starsnuffer]

And yeah, maybe I am prone to Hyperbole. At least Ray didn't call me a drama queen ;P

-W

 

[EP Dad]

A lot of coaches/scouts use the rev-fire to measure spin. Rev-fire is a great tool, but it's only going to give you spin rate, not spin direction. You'll often see results of NFCA camps that post spin rates for various pitchers. Often the fastest pitchers have very similar spin rates for all of their pitches. This is because they often throw with a bullet or fastball spin no matter what the pitch is. Their pitches do not have the proper spin orientation. Daddy calls the inside fastball a screwball, the pitch where she steps 3 inches shorter and throws low is a drop ball, and that curve ball is when she steps towards third and throws that same pitch outside. Coaches read the results and say "hey that has good spin". Coach is happy, daddy is happy, and DD gets a scholarship to go throw the BP the college game has become.

-W

LOL.

Question: How far does it have to break to count? Before High School? In High School? In College?

 

[sluggers]

A "real" breaking pitch is going to move 12 to 15 inches.

Of course, a DD should try to throw the breaking pitch during a game whether it works or not. It might take her years to perfect it, annd hopefully the DD has success and enjoys the process. But, a Daddy should know the difference between a "real" breaking pitch and junk.

Daddies don't kid themselves too much about HRs...if a HR is the result of incompetence by the fielders, they don't start saying that DD is the second coming of Willie Mays. But, if DD strikes out the #9 batter on a 12U rec team, then Daddy tells everyone it was because of her wicked "back door cutter".

When my DD was 15YOA, I caught a college pitcher who was known for her rise ball. The ball got about 15 feet from me and it looked like someone yanked it upward with a string (no, a riseball doesn't actually rise, but give me a break...) It was great for me--because I realized my DD wasn't even close to throwing it.

 

[EP Dad]

K, thanks. That gives a number for the DD to shoot for. Right now I'd say most are in the 3-6 range. Enough to cause a lot of pop ups and grounders but not enough to garner a lot of strikeouts.

Oh, and my DD doesn't have a wicked "back door cutter". Although she has been jokingly accused of having Vaseline and an emery board while she's in the circle.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

We have to ask "when" and how are you measuring a break. In baseball generally speaking the ball breaks the most in the last 15 feet of flight. (.25) So by the same physics fastpitch should be a tad over 10 feet from the plate.

Like Sluggers stated, that rise wasn't moving up, it was simply adding distance counteracting the natural decline of gravity due to its back spin. Same way we make a fastball stay flat in baseball, back spin. It's almost like a Jedi mind trick. Haha

All this is relatively easy if you sit and think it through. I don't have numbers for softball, but my nephew's college has a pitch analyze machine that breaks down the movement from release to plate. If I understand correct, the machine draws a line from release to where it should cross the plate with zero spin. That's your base, then factors where the pitch thrown with spin actually crosses. That gives you the break in inches. Looks like in MLB a good curve moves 17 inches.

Osterman states she was so successful because she was on the lower tier of speed for her level. But she had the most movement. Which makes since because the slower the pitch the more gravity forces have time to act on it. Like the machine mentioned above, nephew said it shows a ball 95 mph with no spin dropping 8 inches with gravity. A curve with top spin added 6 inches of drop, that's 14 inches of movement.

I'd love to see some data from the underhand pitches we throw in this game.

 

[EP Dad]

Osterman states she was so successful because she was on the lower tier of speed for her level. But she had the most movement.

That's an awesome quote. I wish she had announced that at the clinic of hers we were at a year and a half ago.

 

[Greenmonsters]

We have to ask "when" and how are you measuring a break. In baseball generally speaking the ball breaks the most in the last 15 feet of flight. (.25) So by the same physics fastpitch should be a tad over 10 feet from the plate.

Like Sluggers stated, that rise wasn't moving up, it was simply adding distance counteracting the natural decline of gravity due to its back spin. Same way we make a fastball stay flat in baseball, back spin. It's almost like a Jedi mind trick. Haha

All this is relatively easy if you sit and think it through. I don't have numbers for softball, but my nephew's college has a pitch analyze machine that breaks down the movement from release to plate. If I understand correct, the machine draws a line from release to where it should cross the plate with zero spin. That's your base, then factors where the pitch thrown with spin actually crosses. That gives you the break in inches. Looks like in MLB a good curve moves 17 inches.

Osterman states she was so successful because she was on the lower tier of speed for her level. But she had the most movement. Which makes since because the slower the pitch the more gravity forces have time to act on it. Like the machine mentioned above, nephew said it shows a ball 95 mph with no spin dropping 8 inches with gravity. A curve with top spin added 6 inches of drop, that's 14 inches of movement.

I'd love to see some data from the underhand pitches we throw in this game.

GD - check out the pitch charts for Dunne and Thomas during the 2011 WCWS that Sluggers posted in the thread linked below.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/8271-dunne-v-thomas-pitches-2011-cws.html

 

[GOINGDEEP]

GD - check out the pitch charts for Dunne and Thomas during the 2011 WCWS that Sluggers posted in the thread linked below.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/8271-dunne-v-thomas-pitches-2011-cws.html

Thanks, I had to look a little but these are like some of the graphs nephew was showing me their equipment spits out. Not exactly, but you get the idea. The verbal data was much like Sluggers post, it gave me a headache so I just looked at the pics.

I knew I shouldn't have slept through college.

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